Saunders / Clark of Clifton

[friesland]

I wonder if someone could offer any advice.

I have James William Clark marrying Selina Saunders in 1882 in Clifton.

In the 1881 census I have James Saunders and wife Caroline nee Hollingsworth, Selina's parents, with family including Emily Saunders bn 1879 in Clifton and Ruth Saunders bn 1880 in Clifton both as granddaughters.

In 1891 census I have James William Clark & wife Selina nee Saunders living in Islington with family including Emily Clark bn 1880 in Clifton as daughter.

I have a death for a Ruth Saunders in Islington in 1883.

On the GRO birth index Emily has no surname but Ruth shows Hollingsworth.

I may be making an assumption but I think that both Emily and Ruth are daughters of James William Clark and Selina Saunders before they were married.

Would anyone like to make comment?

It does not affect my direct line but I expect, like me, people like to tie up loose ends.

Just to make it more of a mystery I was told by an elderly relative, long since gone, that James William Clark and Selina, nee Saunders, had another daughter named Nancy who disappeared from the family, never to return, after Selina died in 1902 and then William remarried in 1911. I have found no record whatsoever that Nancy ever existed.

Sorry this is all a bit convoluted.

Peter Siggery

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Nancy could have been the name by which one of the children was generally known, rather than her  "official" birth name. It was often short for Ann - I see there was an Annie in the family, but relatives witnessed her wedding in 1909, which doesn;t quite fit

[amondg]

I think you need to get the certificates to see who the mother is. PDF version is less expensive
otherwise it's speculation no proof

ADDED
Selina may have had Emily before she married but James W Clark is not necessarily
the father. The marriage took place 3 years later.

Selina's sister Sarah was old enough to have had a child in that time period.
1881 she is a servant working in Islington.

[wivenhoe]

GRO birth
SAUNDERS, Ruth   mms.      HOLLINGSWORTH 
1880  MarQ  Biggleswade  Vol 03B  Page 367

[friesland]

Yes, I think the advice about getting the certificates is sound and the various possibilities interesting.

I will get the certificates and then review it again.

I think - more haste less speed is appropriate here.

With regards to Nancy, it would seem a possibility that this is Annie. As I mentioned I have never found any record of a Nancy in births or censuses. I didn't find a marriage in 1909, can you give details? The information I received was from an elderly cousin of my mother's who's own mother was a much younger sister of Annie, about 12 years younger, who thought that Nancy disappeared about the time when her father remarried. The impression was that Nancy didn't agree with the marriage and left home but it may have been that she just got married herself at that time and the story was in the memory of a much younger sister.

Thank you

Peter

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Annie Elizabeth Clark,  26, spinster
Father:    James William Clark, inspector on railway
Address: 179 He??ford Road

William Skilton, 43, widower, pensioner
Father: William Skilton, retired
Address: 117 Talchbrook St

Marriage    12 Apr 1909, St Andrew, Barnsbury, Islington, England

Witnesses James William Clark and Beatrice Lily Clark

1901 Annie is a servant in Bedford. Maybe she just wasn;t in her younger sister's life that much