John McIvor (born c. 1845) of Bracky

[SteveMcIver]

Good afternoon,

I am seeking information on my great-grandfather John McIver; he once told a census-taker he was born in Tyrone, Ireland, in 1845, but I have no other information on his birth. I have researched several candidates but recently came across a John McIvor born c. 1845 in Bracky, Kilskeery, Omagh East. The first names of his parents (John McIver, born c. 1811) and mother (Ann, born c. 1823) and several siblings (Archibald, born c. 1847; William, born c. 1831; and Elizabeth, born c. 1843) echo names my great-grandfather gave to his own children (Archie, born in 1887, was my grandfather). "My" John enlisted in the army in 1863 and later married and settled in Sheffield, England, so if this is him, there shouldn't be records of him in Tyrone past 1855. While the family is now called McIver, I suspect this was changed from McIvor (or perhaps even McKeever). If anyone can shed any light on this -- for instance, if John (1845) stayed in Bracky his whole life -- that would be great. Thanks in advance for your help!

[heywood]

Hello and welcome to Rootschat.

Is this the family you refer to?

http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/details.jsp?id=58754

Possibly the same James in 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Omagh_Urban/Prospect_Terrace/843561/

That James had a father, John

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10598/5860746.pdf

You would need to check further to see if all these records match up.

However, with regard to your ancestor.

Do you have John’s marriage details with his father’s name and occupation? That might help your research.

Fold3 (via Ancestry) shows discharge date 10th February 1873 for John McIver, 83rd Regiment. There may be other details. Fold3 is a pay site. find my Past, subscription site might have details.

The birth of son Joseph shows John as a Private in 83rd regiment of foot
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03510/2290780.pdf

Baptism of Joseph
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-268-1-1-140
This is a Church of Ireland record.

There may be  more/better baptism records available if the family is Catholic.

[SteveMcIver]

Thanks, that's all very helpful.

One question on Joseph's Church of Ireland baptismal record: Does this mean Joseph (and presumably his father John) were CoI members? Or perhaps, given that John was in the army,  he didn't have much choice on the denomination of baptism? I have been trying to determine if John and/or his children were protestants or Catholics, since some of the candidates for "my" John are Catholics. The family isn't Catholic today, and surviving relatives in England (many of them religious) have no knowledge of a Catholic background.

[heywood]

What is your John’s father’s name and occupation from the marriage certificate?

[SteveMcIver]

I have just ordered his marriage certificate. I am embarrassed to admit I did not know British birth certificates included the father's name -- a fact that would have saved me a LOT of potentially wasted effort. I will shelve further research until I get the certificate in a few weeks.

[heywood]

Yes, I think that is the best thing to do.
The marriage certificate should show you his father’s name and occupation which may help.
You will also know the marriage venue which again could help with religious denomination.
Good luck

[SteveMcIver]

According to my great-grandfather John McIver's marriage certificate, his father was also named John and was a laborer. He was married in a Presbyterian church in Sheffield, England (where his Army unit was then stationed), so this may eliminate the Catholic records I have seen under the same name. The records for Joseph you cited in Bracky list John McIver's occupation as farmer, so this may not be the same family as "my" John. (Though I suppose "laborer" and "farmer" are not mutually exclusive?) The Bracky family is intriguing to me because of the repetition of given names compared with my great-grandfather's children.

There is a John McIver of the right age with a father named John in the 1851 Scottish census; the family was born in Ireland (no details given) and the father was listed as a "mason laborer." This is a family I have long concentrated on with little luck; the names of the other two children do not recur in the next generation. The only hint of my great-grandfather's place of birth that I have found was a notation of "Tyrone, Ireland" in the 1911 British census. I will carve out some time for more research in the next few months.

Thank you for your help.

[heywood]

Thanks for posting.

Have you accessed the military records for John? That’s all I can think of now.
If you have access to FindMyPast it might be there otherwise Fold3.

[SteveMcIver]

I recently obtained, from the National Archives, the records for his final muster in February 1873, which were of little help. I have been contemplating paying for his first muster, which presumably would be exactly 10 years earlier. Do you know what sort of information I might expect to find there? I have read that this may include the place of enlistment, which might be helpful -- although I expect that one could not enlist in every small town, so his enlistment may simply be in the nearest large town. Is much other detail on a new enlistee likely to appear on muster records (or for that matter elsewhere -- poking around the National Archives, I found few promising avenues to explore). It does not help that the 83rd Regiment of Foot, an Irish unit, has long since been absorbed into other units.