Author Topic: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)  (Read 22716 times)

Offline TreeDigger

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #18 on: Friday 15 April 22 21:26 BST (UK) »
@Guy Etchells - Exactly why I initially went with Living DNA to nail down my UK specifics and find the solution to the presumed 'brick wall'. Unfortunately even uploading to Gedmatch isn't resulting in what I hoped for.

@Mabel Bagshawe

Yes, I looked into her as well, and dismissed her for the same reasons.

Meanwhile I've been rooting around Ancestry to see if I could find my grandmother (Emily Esther Rosewell b. 1905 Shepperton) both by her maiden and married name (Haycock) in any of the electoral listings for 1926/1927. She married Jack Haycock in 1926 in Liverpool, where he originated. If she didn't join him in The Netherlands prior to Febr 1928, when she was registered by Dutch immigration services, she must have been somewhere in England.

I thought she might have stayed with Jack's parents, so I checked Liverpool. Didn't find her, but there are a *lot* of Radcliffe's there. Including one (married) Albert John Radcliffe..

Knowing I have to be careful not to grasp at straws, I can't help but think Dad's parentage may have been staring me in the face all along. The name Albert doesn't appear in either the Haycock or Rosewell side. Maybe it's not this man, but once you start encountering too many coincidences, it;s time to start testing them for factuality.

@louisa maud - He was born in Lambeth, and that's the area where Jack and Emily ended up living. However, that doesn't mean it's where he was conceived. It's basically a guessing game until I know where Emily was at around March 1927. They could have ended up moving to London to be closer to her parents, but it was still quite a distance between Sunbury (Emily's parents) and Lambeth.
Haycock (Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Oswestry); Rosewell (Shepperton); Wales/Whales (Thanet, Kent); Daborn (Chobham, Horsell); Prince and Powell (Liverpool area); Maxted and She(e)pwashe (Kent); Milo/Millot (France, Holland, England); genealogical research project on links to ancient Frisian aristocracy (Hofstra-Fynia-Tania). It keeps me off the streets ;)

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Offline Rosinish

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 April 22 00:05 BST (UK) »
A bit late to the thread but it's intriguing  ;)

"JW Haycock and Emily Esther Rosewell married 10 July 1926 in Kirkdale, Lancashire"

I'm wondering (as it hasn't been mentioned) is it possible Emily had a younger sister who may have fallen pregnant & the newly-weds took on the child?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline TreeDigger

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 16 April 22 18:46 BST (UK) »
@Rosinish - She did, actually. Gertrude Ethel Rosewell, born 06 July 1910 (?) in Shepperton. She married William F Smith in 1933 in Elham, Kent. Gertrude would've been 17 in 1927.. and of course is she was the mother, then any family resemblance to the Rosewells would not be out of sorts.

I do have a distant Rosewell relative (we share 4x great-grandparents) who tested, but we only match on tiny DNA segments.
Haycock (Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Oswestry); Rosewell (Shepperton); Wales/Whales (Thanet, Kent); Daborn (Chobham, Horsell); Prince and Powell (Liverpool area); Maxted and She(e)pwashe (Kent); Milo/Millot (France, Holland, England); genealogical research project on links to ancient Frisian aristocracy (Hofstra-Fynia-Tania). It keeps me off the streets ;)

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Offline Rosinish

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 17 April 22 02:48 BST (UK) »
With the potential of Gertrude Ethel Rosewell being the mother, did she & William F Smith have any children?

It would be worth following their lines & looking for the surname Smith in your matches/compared matches.

Have you uploaded your results to all the free sites to benefit from any/all matches?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline TreeDigger

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 17 April 22 08:09 BST (UK) »
I already tried finding them in i.e. the 1939 census, but it's amazing how many William F. Smiths there are with a wife named Gertrude :/

And having tested with Living DNA means I can only upload to Gedmatch, as all other sites don't accept the raw data due to using a different chip (I think). FTDNA only accepts Living DNA data from prior to 2018 (again, the chip).

All my matches on Gedmatch -both the 'normal' data as well as the 'imputed' data I generated on DNAGenics in the hope of finding more matches- are either around 40cM linking back to my mother's side, or 20cM and less on what presumably is my father's side. And in the latter case I have so far been unable to tell whether those are his paternal or maternal side.

It's one heck of a puzzle. 
Haycock (Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Oswestry); Rosewell (Shepperton); Wales/Whales (Thanet, Kent); Daborn (Chobham, Horsell); Prince and Powell (Liverpool area); Maxted and She(e)pwashe (Kent); Milo/Millot (France, Holland, England); genealogical research project on links to ancient Frisian aristocracy (Hofstra-Fynia-Tania). It keeps me off the streets ;)

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Offline heywood

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 17 April 22 15:14 BST (UK) »
I think Gertrude is in Essex in 1939. Maybe her husband is in the Army.
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Offline TreeDigger

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 17 April 22 15:41 BST (UK) »
That sure looks like it's her  :D

However, I'm not sure whether to pursue this particular hypothesis (i.e. Gertrude possibly being AJR's mother) until I have ruled out Emily actually isn't. I mean, would they be able to change AJR's birth record? Emily is listed as being AJR's mother..
Haycock (Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Oswestry); Rosewell (Shepperton); Wales/Whales (Thanet, Kent); Daborn (Chobham, Horsell); Prince and Powell (Liverpool area); Maxted and She(e)pwashe (Kent); Milo/Millot (France, Holland, England); genealogical research project on links to ancient Frisian aristocracy (Hofstra-Fynia-Tania). It keeps me off the streets ;)

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Offline louisa maud

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Re: DNA test left me floundering (was re: George Haycock from Lancashire)
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 17 April 22 15:58 BST (UK) »
I would  have  assumed  by the time AJR   was  born the  mother  would  have registered   the birth as her child, I stand  to  be  corrected of course .
LM
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Offline rosie99

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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk