Searching for William Jones from llanrwst - cousin of John Jones Talysarn

[mgabgt]

Can you help us to link my great-great-Grandfather William Jones with John Jones Talysarn?

My late mother showed us an entry in a book ‘The Welsh Builder on Merseyside - Annals and Lives by J R Jones‘ about her grandfather (William Jones 1843 -1924). So he is my great-grandfather (GG).

This tells us that his father (GGG), also William Jones, was a cousin of John Jones Talysarn. We know that this may well not be a first cousin. We have tried hard, from both ends, but have not yet managed to find that link, although perhaps we might have done so now.

We believe the records show my GG quite clearly. For example we believe he was born 12 April 1843 in Scotland Street, Llanrwst.

We have found a possible marriage certificate for GGG and wife Anne, showing William to be a widower. William Jones (widower) and Anne Williams (spinster) were married on 30th May 1835 - Llanwrst p131, Capel Garmon, with witnesses Robert Jones and Anne Williams.

The 1851 census 2508/369/2/6 records William 45 (GGG) (carpenter), Anne 41, Hugh 12, Mary 10, William 8 (GG) and Anne 5 at Ty Newydd, Betws-Y-Coed, Llanrwst, Caernarvonshire. All except Anne, 41, have Llanrwst as their birthplace. Anne has Pulleli or Palleli (or maybe an attempt at Pwllheli?) Carnarvonshire on the original.

For GGG to be a cousin of John Jones Talysarn we knew we would have to come at this from the other end.

Having tried many “routes” the following line would appear to be most Likely.

   John Jones Tanycastell (1759-1807) m Elinor Owen (1762-1846)

   Elinor’s sister Gwen Owen (1746-1797) m John Llan Dolwyddelan Jones (1749-1829)


   Their son William Jones Llan Dolwyddelan (1781-1810) m Mari Thomas (1778-1843)

   Their son William Jones (1810/11) could well be my GGG

Given the information provided does this appear possible/probable?

Would you know if a William Jones born in Dolwyddelan in 1810/11 may have then moved to, and remained in Llanrwst?

Our GGG is shown on his wedding certificate as a widower, but we cannot find evidence of a prior wedding.

Any assistance or advice you can give would be much appreciated.

[wallbanger]

Hi, I would suggest that you start off by getting his birth certificate, otherwise it's all a bit vague. You can ask the GRO to search for the birth date that you think is correct. The GRO can also do a search for the year plus one year either side if you want to play safe. 

[CaroleW]

As you are probably already aware - Jones is one of the most common surnames in Wales which makes researching difficult unless you have some “hard facts”

Starting with William Jones b 1843 - do you have his marriage cert confirming his father was William whose occupation was a carpenter?

In 1841 - William & Anne also have a 5yr old daughter Margaret

[wallbanger]

The only likely baptism I could find was this: July 19th 1844 St Mary's, Llanrwst: William son of William & Anne Jones, living in Llandwrog, Carnarvonshire, was baptised. Father William was a quarryman. I doubt that helps you any. As I suggested, you really need to send for a birth certificate.

As for question re. moving from Dolwyddelan, I have family moving about from Dolwyddelan to Llansannan, and from Llangernyw to Penmachno around that time, so it is possible if you can make the links definitively.

[mgabgt]

Thank you for these helpful comments. I will respond more fully next week.

[mgabgt]

Again, thank you all for your comments.
We do have what we believe to be a copy of the birth certificate for my GG - William Jones - being born in Scotland Street, Llanrwst on 12th April 1843, father William Jones labourer, mother Anne Jones - formerly Williams.

Wallbanger - I suppose this would not preclude him being baptised in Llanrwst in July 1844, so that could fit. There is an interesting coincidence in your 17 Aug response. The certificate you refer to shows William and Anne being resident in Llandwrog, some distance from Llanrwst. The most likely certificate (bap) we can find for GGG Was a baptism on 24 Feb 1811 In Llandwrog, to parents William Jones and Mary Thomas. However we are trying to find a link to William Jones Llan Dolwyddelen and wife Mari Thomas.

Do you, or anyone else, think that these people could be connected and that William Jones llan and his wife Mari spent time in, or had family connections in Llandwrog?

Are there any other thoughts or suggestions?

Regards - mgabgt

[wallbanger]

Hi, Scotland Street is in the centre of Llanrwst. It was a typical slum area of the times, with overcrowding, terraced houses etc. There are a couple of publications about Scotland St, Llanrwst if you Google them. He certainly would likely be baptised in Llanrwst, in either the parish church or one of the non-conformist chapels. The non-conformist baptisms will usually indicate the mother's maiden name, whereas the church baptism would just have both the parents married name. There is also the possibility that there isn't a baptism record, so don't try to make one 'fit'. I have a few that were living in remote areas who either weren't baptised or baptised in 'job lots' with other siblings at a later time.
It's certainly possible that there might be a connection in Llandwrog, but be steered by the mother's maiden name which you now know to be Williams.
Good luck. 🙂