Herbert Williams 1890 Forden

[K8Case]

Good morning everyone.
I hope this message finds you well 
I am currently researching my family tree and have hit a brick wall with my paternal grandfathers line. My great grandfather was born in Welshpool in 1890 and has listed his father as James Williams (house plasterer) on his marriage certificate. I can't find either of their birth certificates, Herbert in Welshpool or James in Bangor 1839.
Any help would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Kate x

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looking back at other children of James  and Mary Ann, they have mother's maiden name Roberts

So I think this is Herbert's birth reg

WILLIAMS, BERTIE
mmn        ROBERTS     
Q1 1890  FORDEN  Volume 11B  Page 177

He's listed as 11 months old on 1891 census taken in April, which doesn't quite fit, but Mary's age is 10 years out, so what's a few weeks !

[Mabel Bagshawe]

You may have some issues with James' birth as his age might be a bit unreliable. The only death in the area which allows for Herbert's conception and James' death before the 1891 census (where Mary is a widow) is in December 1889, where the age on the registration and burial is 64 (i.e. born c1825)

[CaroleW]

1891 shows Mary as 55yrs old which would make it impossible for her to be the mother of an 11mth old

1881 has her as 33.  However - 1881 has Mary Jane 3 & Thomas C 1 who are not with her on the 1891 census

[K8Case]

Thank you for your replies
The things you mention are what's making the search harder. Unfortunately there is nobody in the family that has information regarding who Herberts parents were. I have asked my dad to take a dna test to see if that helps at all.
I had thought that Mary Ann was an Evans so thank you for the info that she is a Roberts.
Kate x

[heywood]

It’s puzzling.

There are baptisms to James, a Plasterer and Mary Ann, Welshpool

Thomas Charles, 1880           birth M quarter 1879 mmn Roberts
George Ernest, 1883              birth George J quarter 1883 mmn Roberts
Herbert, 1885                        birth D quarter 1884 mmn Roberts
Margaret Alice, 1888               birth M quarter 1887 mmn Roberts

Are these the same family?

[K8Case]

Thomas Charles is on my tree, I've not come across Margaret yet. I think Herbert from 1885 died as an infant. If I'm honest I think my whole line of investigation could be wrong 
On Herberts marriage certificate he lists his father as James (plasterer deceased) as his father.
Kate x

[DCB]

The marriage was in Q3 1867 in Welshool District. Unfortunately, the North Wales BMD has it as a civil ceremony, so you would need the certificate to gain more information.

His birthplace in 1871 is different, but I can't make out the name - attached.

David

[K8Case]

DCB thats brilliant, thank you!
Do you have the volume and page number at all?
The writing says Caernarvonshire Naichcraig I think as I have come across that before.
Thanks again.
Kate x