John Stephenson of Whitby 1790s

[jonwicken]

Hi for several years I have been researching the Stephensons or Stevensons of Whitby.

I wonder if anyone would please be willing to have a look at something with a second pair of eyes.

John Stephenson married Jane Shadforth in Whitby in 1775 (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-N-PR-WH-1-24-1537-1900%2F00101&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FBAN%2F300214229%2F2)

Their marriage and children's baptisms and burials show he was a skinner, labourer, tanner and fellmonger.

Their children were: John Stephenson (1777–?), Ann Stephenson|Stevenson (1778–1780), Francis Stephenson (1782–1782), Jane Stephenson|Steevenson (1783–?), Isaac Stephenson (1785–1884), Elizabeth Stephenson (1787–?), John Stephenson|Stevenson (c1788/9–1793) [perhaps identical with one of the following Williams], William Stephenson (1788–?), William Stephenson (1789–?) and my ancestor James Stephenson (1790–1877).

To confuse things, around this time there were another two John Stephensons in Whitby who were also both married to someone called Jane and they were a farmer and carpenter.

There is a burial of in 1792 of a Jane Stephenson wife of John Stephenson a farmer aged 43 years in Whitby. However this does not seem to be Jane Shadforth, and is presumably the Jane wife of the former who had Catherine Stephenson in 1767 and George Stephenson in 1769.

Jane Shadforth|Stephenson however is known to be dead by 1796 as she was not named in the will of her father Francis Shadforth. So maybe the 1792 burial is hers and this John was also a farmer.

In 1798 there is the marriage of a widower John Stephenson, a fellmonger, to widow Mary Hardy (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-N-PR-WH-1-26-1537-1900%2F00050&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FMAR%2F301660244%2F1).

However the signatures on this 1798 marriage and the 1775 marriage I am pretty sure are not the same.

This John and Mary Hardy had the following children: Reuben Stevenson (1799–aft 1833), Daniel Stevenson (1800–?), Henry Stephenson (1804–?), Sarah Stephenson (1807–1807) and Sarah Stephenson (1808–?).

John Stephenson who married Jane Shadforth was my late father's 3rd great grandfather.

My late dad's DNA has matches to the descendants of Isaac Stephenson born in 1785 (son of John Stephenson and Jane Shadforth) and also matches to the descendants of Henry Stephenson born in 1804 (son of John Stephenson and Mary Hardy).

I am really trying to work out if these two men were the same despite the difference in signatures on the 1775 and 1798 marriages.

My father's DNA also has a DNA match to a descendant of a Nanny or Ann Stephenson who married Thomas Stockton in Whitby in 1799. (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-N-PR-WH-1-26-1537-1900%2F00060&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FMAR%2F301660328%2F2)

On this marriage a John Stephenson is a witness. Who is this Nanny and who is this John? Is the witness signature the same as the 1798 marriage?

If anyone can give me any thoughts on this I would be really grateful.

Thank you,
Jon

 

H

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
I'll try to help but I don't know how much help it will be.
Nanny Stephenson who marries in 1799 is buried age 25 years wife of Thomas at Whitby  24.11.1804

This gives a birth c 1779
Baptism Whitby 1.11.1778 born 28 October
Ann Stephenson d of John and Jane fellmonger (Ayslaby?)

Lets put the other children into groups

John 5.5.1777 labourer Brighousewalk?
Anne/Nanny 1778  fellmonger  Ayslaby
Jane 17.5.1783 born 25.4. Brighouse walk skinner
Isaac   s of skninner 29.10/4.11.1785 Brighousewalk/Briggwath?
Elizabeth 4.4.1787 skinner born 24th Feb same
William 20.10.1788 skinner poor
James and William  16 Aug 1790 /29 Aug 1792 skinner poor

Francis 12.5.1782 labourer  Whitby



Catherine 23.7.1767 born 23rd Aslaby
George 23/29 Oct 1769 farmer Aslaby

John sof John carpenter 21.1.1760
Michael 3.12.1770 born 30.11.1770 Carpenter Whitby
Robert 23.8.1773 carpenter Whitby born 20th Whitby

Anne and Eliza   10.6.1788/ bapt 11th   Whitby


We have the wife's possible death 24.8.1792 Jane age 43 years w of John farmer Whitby
Jane wife of John Labourer age 70 years  7.5.1799 Whitby
Jane 12.10.1814 age 84years

John carpenter burried 23.5.1792 age 62 years Whitby born 1730.
John 21.3.1814 Whitby age  84 years  born 1730
Jhn 29.11.1815 Aislaby age 89 so born 1726
John 1.12.1842 Aislaby age 84 born  1758

I'm happy to go with the second marriage to Mary Hardy  in 1798 .The second signature looks like he was short of ink or had trouble holding the quill which can make a big difference.

I'd say Your John was born c 1758 married Jane 1775  and Mary Hardy 1798  before dying in 1842.
There are some Wills for John Stephenson of Whitby at York but none deem to be for the fellmonger.
They are 1777,1790 and 1816.

Ciderdrinker

[Spelk]

Slight addition/correction to the baptisms of William and James -
Whitby Parish church transcript has baptisms on 29 August 1792 of
William STEPHENSON son of John and Jane (skinner) born 8th June 1789, Whitby Xd
James STEPHENSON son of John and Jane (skinner) born 16th Aug 1790, Whitby Xd

So at this time John could afford the tax and was not poor.
Also he seems to have moved to Whitby from Briggswath (as it is shown on current maps) which is on the north side of the river opposite Sleights. Very close to Aislaby but the church there was not built until about 1895. There was another skinner at Briggswath around the same time by the name of BALMFORTH. I expect the ample supply of water was what made the place good for the trade and I understand it was a bit smelly so not a trade you would want to have near other houses.

[jonwicken]

Slight addition/correction to the baptisms of William and James -
Whitby Parish church transcript has baptisms on 29 August 1792 of
William STEPHENSON son of John and Jane (skinner) born 8th June 1789, Whitby Xd
James STEPHENSON son of John and Jane (skinner) born 16th Aug 1790, Whitby Xd

So at this time John could afford the tax and was not poor.
Also he seems to have moved to Whitby from Briggswath (as it is shown on current maps) which is on the north side of the river opposite Sleights. Very close to Aislaby but the church there was not built until about 1895. There was another skinner at Briggswath around the same time by the name of BALMFORTH. I expect the ample supply of water was what made the place good for the trade and I understand it was a bit smelly so not a trade you would want to have near other houses.

Thanks very much for this. I just checked the original entry and the abode on this baptism states 'poor' so not sure if that meant they were in the poor house?

Thanks as well for the details about Balmforth and about the trade. I don't know anything about it really so need to do some research!

[jonwicken]

Nanny Stephenson who marries in 1799 is buried age 25 years wife of Thomas at Whitby  24.11.1804

This gives a birth c 1779
Baptism Whitby 1.11.1778 born 28 October
Ann Stephenson d of John and Jane fellmonger (Ayslaby?)

Lets put the other children into groups

John 5.5.1777 labourer Brighousewalk?
Anne/Nanny 1778  fellmonger  Ayslaby
Jane 17.5.1783 born 25.4. Brighouse walk skinner
Isaac   s of skninner 29.10/4.11.1785 Brighousewalk/Briggwath?
Elizabeth 4.4.1787 skinner born 24th Feb same
William 20.10.1788 skinner poor
James and William  16 Aug 1790 /29 Aug 1792 skinner poor

Francis 12.5.1782 labourer  Whitby

Thanks so much for such a detailed look. I really do appreciate that.

Grouping the children certainly helps, but the thing that is confusing is that the Ann baptised in 1778 was clearly buried aged 2 years on 2 Aug 1780 (Stevenson, Ann dau John & Jane, skinner, 2 years, Whitby.)

I agree that the age at burial of 25 of Ann Stockton in 1804 and even the DNA match implies that Nanny/Ann Stephenson|Stockton is the daughter of John Stephenson and Jane Shadforth. But how can this marry up with the 1780 burial of two year old Ann?

Could it be that John and Jane Stephenson had another daughter named Ann between the Ann born in 1778 and Francis born in 1782 as there is a four year gap.

There is another burial for a a child who is clearly their son: 19 Feb 1793 Stephenson, John son John & Jane, tanner, 4 years, Whitby.

However there is no baptism for a John in 1788 to 1789, only the two Williams born in 1788 and 1789 and from the age of 4 years the first one fits best. There is no burial of the first William before the second William was born, so did the 1788 William end up being known as John?

So could it be that either the name on the baptism or the burial is incorrectly recorded, or he was renamed after baptism? And what happened to the John baptised in 1777?

The Stephensons of Whitby are all very confusing indeed.

These are the children I therefore potentially have for them:

1. John Stephenson (1777–?)
2. Ann Stephenson (1778–1780)
3. Nanny|Ann Stephenson|Stockton (c1779–1804) [no baptism - potentially his daughter]
4. Francis Stephenson (1782–1782)
5. Jane Stephenson (1783–?)
6. Isaac Stephenson (1785–1884)
7. Elizabeth Stephenson (1787–?)
8. William Stephenson (1788–?)
9. John Stephenson (c1788/9–1793) [no baptism - identical with William above?]
10. William Stephenson (1789–?)
11. James Stephenson (1790–1877)

Thanks again for all your input. I will reply to the other comments you made after this message.

[jonwicken]

Catherine 23.7.1767 born 23rd Aslaby
George 23/29 Oct 1769 farmer Aslaby

I have assumed that this burial is their mother's:

24 Aug 1792 Stephenson, Jane wife John (farmer) 43 years, Whitby

However I have just realised that this burial is only 5 days before the double baptism of William Stephenson and James Stephenson on 29 August 1792.

This must surely mean that it is in fact Jane Shadforth|Stephenson, wife of John the skinner/labourer/tanner/fellmonger, especially since she is known to be dead by 1796 when her father Francis Shadforth made his will. This is therefore one mystery solved.

As William born in 1788 and was not baptised until 1792, presumably when they were in the poor house or chargeable on the parish, it makes sense that maybe Nanny was not baptised either and she was indeed born between the gap between Ann in 1778 and Francis in 1782. Perhaps if a baptism was needed, she just used her dead elder sister's one, or people thought it was hers anyway.

I don't know if parish officials checked through the records for children's baptisms if they became chargeable on the parish. Does anyone know? Certainly the fact both boys were baptised just after their mother died and they were poor implies that the parish might have had a hand in getting them baptised in 1792.

Does anyone please know if any Whitby records of the poor exist at all?   

Amazing what becomes clear with new eyes. Thank you!

[Spelk]

At the time in question there was a tax or charge of ten pence to record a baptism. That could be waived if the parents were hard up and this was noted in the record for the baptism by writing in the word poor. For a normal baptism the entry would include the Xd (ten pence) as it did for the 1792 baptisms I wrote of.
This record is needed to keep track of how much money would be in the church coffers. Not paying the tax for a baptism just means you were hard up. No implication that you were in the poor house or receiving parish relief.

For the burial of the Jane STEPHENSON in Aug 1792 you say it calls him a farmer. This clearly is the priest making it clear that this is NOT the Jane who was the wife of John the skinner ( another word for tanner or felmonger ).

[jonwicken]

John sof John carpenter 21.1.1760
Michael 3.12.1770 born 30.11.1770 Carpenter Whitby
Robert 23.8.1773 carpenter Whitby born 20th Whitby

There is also the 12 October 1755 of Mary Stephenson born on 31 August 1754.

The parents of these children were John Stephenson and Jane Jowsey who married in 1751 in Whitby by licence. This is confirmed by the will of Jane's aunt Ann Dowsey|Jowsey|Ward dated 1775 and who died in 1779. 

This will is dated 11 September 1775 and names five female nieces and three of their spouses including carpenter John Stephenson and his son William. The baptism for John has not as yet been found.

John Stephenson's burial is 1791 May 23 Stephenson, John, carpenter, 62 years, Whitby.

Anne and Eliza   10.6.1788/ bapt 11th   Whitby

I can't read the original entry for this but it looks like Alicia and Eliza with a father Daniel? It is hard to read.

[jonwicken]

At the time in question there was a tax or charge of ten pence to record a baptism. That could be waived if the parents were hard up and this was noted in the record for the baptism by writing in the word poor. For a normal baptism the entry would include the Xd (ten pence) as it did for the 1792 baptisms I wrote of.
This record is needed to keep track of how much money would be in the church coffers. Not paying the tax for a baptism just means you were hard up. No implication that you were in the poor house or receiving parish relief.

Thank you. This is the original record here: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-N-PR-WH-1-9-1537-1900%2F00107&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FBAP%2F303610823

I can now clearly see the Xd at the start, but the words at the end of the entry state 'poor' so I am confused. There are not many Xds on this page.

In the registers are also the letters P, R and also B. Do you happen to know what they mean at all please?

Thank again.