Help with names

[oldhippy]

I have these two Welsh names can someone tell me which parts are the Christian names and which are the surnames

Gruffudd ap Lewys

Lowri ferch Hywel Fychan

Many thanks.

[Gadget]

Welsh patronymics*

Grufudd the son of Lewys

Lowri the daughter of Fychan

* no surnames  - the system uses the father's given name .

Add -  at 21.39. I see that you've inserted a Hywel in front of Fychan

See my Reply #4

[Gadget]

I always recommend this as a guide

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/helachau/patronymics.htm

Add - This is a good example:

Grufudd ap Cynan ab Iago ab Idwal ap Meurig ab Idwal Foel ab Anarawd ap Rhodri Mawr ap Merfyn Frych ap Gwriad ab Elidir ap Sandde ab Alcwn ap Tegid ap Gwair ap Dwg ap Llywarch Hen ab Elidir Lydanwyn.

[oldhippy]

Thank you so much for that info. I have also saved that link.

[Gadget]

Just a query - re Lowri ferch Fychan/Lowri ferch Hywel Fychan that you refer to

 is she the Lowri who was the sister of Owain Glyndwr?

If so , she is an ancestor of mine. She married Robert Puleston

PS - Lowri's father was  Gruffydd Fychan , I think that Fychan  just means son of  - i.e. in your case Hywel's father was also called Hywel

[Mabel Bagshawe]

PS - Lowri's father was  Gruffydd Fychan , I think that Fychan  just means son of  - i.e. in your case Hywel's father was also called Hywel

Fychan doesn't mean "son of" - it's a version of Fach, ie small, lesser (possibly younger - to differentiate from others?). It's the root of the name Vaughan

[Gadget]

I didn't say it was - it's a version of bach/fach or bychan and in patronymics it means that the son has the same name as the father  so really is  - Lowri ferch Hywel ap Hywel

add -  so little hywel  -  https://www.majstro.com/dictionaries/Welsh-English/bychan

[Gadget]

Mabel - I think we are really in agreement. In my study if patronymics, I have read that it is used as little/small <name of father>  with the son having the same name as the father.

[oldhippy]

Just a query - re Lowri ferch Fychan/Lowri ferch Hywel Fychan that you refer to

 is she the Lowri who was the sister of Owain Glyndwr?

If so , she is an ancestor of mine. She married Robert Puleston

PS - Lowri's father was  Gruffydd Fychan , I think that Fychan  just means son of  - i.e. in your case Hywel's father was also called Hywel

Sorry for the late reply. The two I mentioned married.  Gruffudd ap Lewys father is according to Ancestry Robert Lloyd Abt. 1500 of, Cynllwyd, Llanuwchllyn, Merionethshire, Wales, D:Abt. 1605. Married Mawd ferch Dafydd, Abt. 1500 of, Y Plās Du, Llannerch Banna, Flintshire, Wales, D:abt 1568. I don't have any sisters or brothers of these in my tree.