Author Topic: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA  (Read 1005 times)

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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I've added the results of my Ancestry test to Myheritage, I don't have particularly close matches on either site and have only found one person who has added their result to both sites. That result brings up some queries/questions and confusion. We both have trees on Ancestry though there is only one tree on myheritage

Ancestry result- 4th cousin at 40 cM across 4 segments
Myheritage result- 3rd - 5th cousin 64cM across 5 segments

Ancestry actually suggests a 30% chance we are 3rd cousins and just 15% chance we are 4th cousins but has plumped for 4th cousins, I know the two trees, both are backed up by documents and the common ancestors are the same 2xgrt grandparents in both cases and are on my maternal side.

I'm also getting a couple of matches on another maternal line, the tests were taken by two sisters, Ancestry suggests one is my 2nd-3rd cousin on the maternal side, the other being a 4th-6th cousin and not assigned as maternal or paternal link.  We can't work out the link and on paper at least  there is no link between us, someone somewhere either made up the details on a cert or forgot to mention something but the person who has taken that test has a around 18 shared matches with me. All the shared matches have ether private trees, unlinked trees, no trees or have been inactive for ages, my biggest headache is the few who do reply insist we have no link at all because we don't have the same name in our tree complete with marching band and flashing lights picking them out.
How far can the suggested relationship be trusted as I'm really struggling to determine links to others based on the suggestions the sites are making and the issues with accessing the other trees and gleaning info from the tree owners.


Offline phil57

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 19 November 22 23:32 GMT (UK) »
The suggested relationship is just that - a suggested most likely relationship based on a range of probabilities. Because it is based on probabilities, not everyone will fit in the most likely suggested relationship range, some matches with the same amount of shared DNA will be closer, others more distant. See the DNA painter shared cM tool at dnapainter.com/tools for more information and the tool itself, which allows you to enter the shared cM or percentage of shared DNA and presents the range of probable relationships by likelihood.

One reason for different shared DNA amounts for the same match between Ancestry and other tests for the same individual may be Ancestry's use of their own algorithm called Timber, which attempts to strip lengths of DNA that Ancestry believe are likely to be generally shared between populations and therefore not significant to the length of a match between related individuals.

If you select the headline shared DNA result for a match on Ancestry, it will often give a different figure for unweighted shared DNA. If there is a difference, the unweighted (larger) amount will be more comparable with the result from the other company's test.

Other differences result from the areas of DNA that each company tests. None of them test the whole of your DNA. Such tests would be prohibitively expensive, so they test regions and infer some of the resulting gaps. Each company's test result will therefore show some differences for the same infividual tested.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 November 22 00:31 GMT (UK) »
In the case of the relative who has tests on Ancestry and MH we both researched our trees independently of each other and added the all the descendants of the couple we could find. The work we did predates DNA by several years.

I've only just noticed since my original post that the suggested relationship is 4th cousin on the DNA result (the third most likely percentage wise) but when clicking the profile of the other person Ancestry then says 3rd cousins based on our trees. it then names the common ancestors to illustrate the relationship.

With regard to the two sisters I link to and the shared matches with them my big problem is that I'm struggling to learn anything from any of them, only a couple have replied to messages and they insist that the closest suggested relationship is the only option so the common ancestors have to be a certain couple, they completely ignore the possibility that we are some permutation of half cousins, eg that one of my ancestors and one of theirs crossed paths at some point in history.  I'm happy that my tree accurately reflects the details in registers and certificates but that doesn't mean the ancestors were always truthful, they don't share that sentiment and whatever is documented is right and that's the end of it. I'm not blaming Ancestry for who joins the site and how they use it but the fact our relationship options are so wide makes it incredibly difficult to determine where our lines cross.  I think several months of frustration are bubbling up and I'm getting to bursting point as there are so many who link to me and they don't show any real interest in discovering the story.

Offline phil57

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 20 November 22 08:40 GMT (UK) »
The common ancestor suggestion (for that is all that it is) is based on another of Ancestry's algorithms called Thrulines. That does not use any DNA results as such. It trawls all searchable Ancestry family trees for any that contain you or your matches, or even people with similar names that it thinks may be the same person, and tries to assemble a link between you. The linked relatives and common ancestors may have been obtained from each or either of the trees in which you and your matches appear, or they may have been cobbled together from other trees in which Thrulines believes it has matched some of the intervening ancestors and has taken additional linking individuals from those trees too.

In other words, it may or may not be correct. It depends on the accuracy of the trees that it has used to assemble the information, and whether any individuals it has used to assemble the suggested link might be the same individuals it has found in another tree or trees, etc. Thrulines suggestions can be useful, but treat them with caution and do your own research on all the individuals in the proposed links between you to try and establish whether the proposal is actually correct.

Your following description of frustrations and lack of responses is not unusual. I have certainly been there, as I would imagine has almost everyone who is or has at some time or other been attempting to research DNA matches. It can often be a case of you having to research your matches family tree, from scratch if necessary, with whatever information is currently available to you, keeping an open mind and being willing to explore all avenues. Long and tedious work unfortunately.
One of my highest matches on Ancestry has ignored all my attempts at contact. His relationship was puzzling to me, as it was obviously fairly close, but I already had a fairly extensive, wide and deep tree, at least for several generations back to the 1841 census, and some lines beyond that. But the name was a completely unrecognisable to me. He has a public tree, but it only contains nine people, and straight away I hit problems with two entirely unrelated individuals who were both a good fit for his father, making further research back along that line problematic. I persevered over the course of about 18 months, during which I went down several wrong avenues and had to retrace my steps, and spent a fair amount on GRO certificates to confirm and progress my research.
Eventually, I was able to establish that one of his grandmothers was an illegitimate child, having been born quite some time after the death of her mother's husband, and that her mother was the sister of a woman with whom one of my GG Uncles had two illegitimate children, and later married. Whilst I can't be certain that he was also the GGF of my DNA match, the fictitious father named on his GM's birth certificate had the same occupation as my GG Uncle, and they lived within a stone's throw of one another at the time. There is no other scenario that fits within the time frame, unless his GGF was another of my GG Uncles who lived in the same area. Whilst that is a possibility, they seem to have been in less likely situations to have had the opportunity or motive, although I can't completely rule them out.

So I guess what I'm saying is that some matches can be identified without any assistance from them, if you are willing and able to put in the work - depending how badly you want to identify them. What may be important and/or critical to your research for one match may be less so for another, and I'm not in the business of simply collecting every available match I can find. I choose those that can either corroborate or disprove my existing research, particularly in areas where other definitive evidence may be lacking.

I had another recently on Ancestry. No response to messages, and a rather unusual username that bore absolutely no resemblance to a normal individual's name. From the 3 person public tree, I was able to establish that the match was probably female. A search of the internet for the username revealed a pinterest account using the same name, and from the public information I found there, I was able to narrow it down sufficient via GRO searches, that I was able to identify her, and within a couple of generations back I recognised an ancestor who was already in my tree.

If you haven't already, I would strongly recommend researching and assembling as many collateral lines as possible - so not just your direct ancestors, but also their siblings at each generation, their husbands or wives, and their children, bringing each line forward to as near the present as you can. It's a lot of work, but so often it enables you to recognise a link fairly quickly when you start researching back through the ancestors of a match. It helps enormously, even when your match may have a useable public tree that you can look at. So many trees on Ancestry contain information that is unsourced and/or not cited, and in many case obviously just copied en masse from other public trees without any checking of the facts asserted.

I can only wish you luck. If you want to learn more about DNA and how you can use it in your research, the pitfalls etc., I would recommend obtaining a copy of Tracing Your Ancestors Using DNA, edited by Graham S. Horton. It covers the basics through to some fairly advanced information that you may not need to use or be aware of, but I have found it invaluable.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire


Offline phil57

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 20 November 22 08:46 GMT (UK) »
Unbelievably, I typed quite a lot more than the above, but had to edit it because I had reached the limit allowed by the forum software. But I just want to add, as I feel this is important to recognise:

Ancestry's indication of the relationship level is based on probabilities, or the suggestion proposed by Thrulines, which may or may not be correct. Don't take it literally. It is an indication, not necessarily a fact.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 20 November 22 11:32 GMT (UK) »
I have a mystery 364cM match via Ancestry and found Cousins of this match on My Heritage after I uploaded my Ancestry Data to the website.

As the My Heritage Cousin shared a lot less DNA with me I took a My Heritage DNA test and there was a DNA difference between us when comparing using both Ancestry and My Heritage DNA results, then after a telephone conversation with the My Heritage Cousin she told me of her half Sister who was also on My Heritage and with whom I share similar cM

So what I an basically saying is that Phil is totally correct in writing that Ancestry and My Heritage will present different DNA results, similar yes, just different.

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 20 November 22 14:02 GMT (UK) »
I started the thread about 11;15 last night and I haven't been to bed yet such is the need to try and discover why I'm not getting matches to one particular maternal line of ancestors.

I've had to dance through member searching on Ancestry, tally those names up with wikitree contributors, use the wikitree profiles to see who has/hasn't done DNA and where they have posted results, back to ancestry to confirm I'm looking at the right tree owners and compare test results on gedmatch. There are five tests scattered across several websites, on paper all are from the same pedigree line and trace back to the same ancestral couple in the late 1700's. Four of them do share dna, one doesn't match at all. That one would be me. This just weeks after the same scenario unfolded on my paternal side. I'm tempted to say my ancestors couldn't tell the truth if their life depended on it but as I don't know who they are now I can't even satisfy myself saying it. 
I think the only thing I can do right no wis change the background music on my tree hosting site to 'Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves' as that is what my ancestral lines seem to be full of.

Shared matches are giving me the odd clue, some Irish families, one in England that had a travelling circus and some really odd 3 family setup on the Isle of Wight that makes no sense at all topped off with some Polish spouses. 

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 20 November 22 15:48 GMT (UK) »
The more generations that desperate you the greater the range of possibilities
But I had a similar experience with second cousin sisters ....it made sense when I discovered they actually had different mother's... From a previous marriage .

Reading through Phil's size words
Thru lines use your DNA matches they only suggest lines to people you do have a match with ..but the suggestions are thrown out totally if your match has not put themselves as home person of tree ..watch out for that one !!

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Ancestry and Myheritage; varying interpretations of relationship/shared DNA
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 20 November 22 15:56 GMT (UK) »
I have just identified 3 fairly high matches by realising they were probably on their husbands trees . I always look at unlinked trees . Another had no tree but their grandchild did .

One high match with no tree has since passed away and now shows on another tree that's the worst way to find how you match
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson