Author Topic: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records  (Read 973 times)

Offline Lee Murphy

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help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« on: Monday 30 January 23 12:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I recently received my grandfather's military service records from the British Army. They tell me that he was sent to Stalag V111B on 18/9/1943 his POW number was 34243.
Apparently he was captured in Libya and reported missing on 1/1/1942 and the records say he was in Italian Hands Camp 65 P.M. 3450 on 23/11/42 and then transferred to German custody.
I wondered if there is any way to find out what happened to him during his time in Italian custody or in the Stalag V111B camp?
On his casualty card it says  that on 13/5/1942 it was reported that:
"Survivor from one of our units sunk in he Mediterranean'' ref no: 4I0L ref no 4/805
Does this mean he was on an Italian ship that was sunk by the British navy?
He returned back to the UK in May 1945.
Thank you very much
Dylan Murphy

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 February 23 21:50 GMT (UK) »
The Italians were responsible for the majority of the British POWs captured in North Africa, including some of those initially captured by Rommel's Afirka Korps. The POWs were transferred to camps on the Italian mainland and, yes, the Royal Navy and RAF attacked quite a few Italian convoys on the route between North Africa and Italy, and they wouldn't have known which ships had POWs on board.
After the Allies invaded Southern Italy, the Italians surrendered on 3 September1943 but the Germans fought on in Italy right up to the Spring of 1945. They therefore took over the POWs previously held by the Italians and transferred them to Germany, to prevent the Italians from releasing them.

Offline greenrig

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 February 23 11:00 GMT (UK) »
You may want to look for your GF here:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14541141

He may have German POW record card(s).  The index to these is online. You can see the actual card at Kew, or they will scan it for a fee.
NEILSON - Erskine/Bishopton, Renfrewshire and Glasgow
BROWN - Hamilton, Lanarkshire
CAIRNS - Hamilton, Lanarkshire
FINDLAY - Kirriemuir area, Forfarshire/Angus
PORTER - Tobermore, Derry, Ireland

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 February 23 12:31 GMT (UK) »
If you haven't already seen this detailed article on Stalag VIIIB on Wikipedia, it's worth a look because it goes into details about the many Arbeitskommandos (work parties) into which British and other PoWs were placed. In particular, scroll down to the subsection on British PoWs at Auschwitz, which says: "The first 200 British PoWs arrived at Auschwitz in September 1943 but over the winter of 1943 another 1,400 British PoWs (mostly captured in North Africa) were transported to [Arbeitskommando] E715". Because the factory where the E715 PoWs were employed was next to the infamous concentration camp, many PoWs witnessed the atrocities there. Escapees from Stalag VIIIB reported this to the Allies. As a consequence, in the summer of 1944 the International Red Cross visited the camp housing the E715 PoWs, (not the concentration camp) and so there will be a Red Cross report outlining conditions in the camp at that time. This will certainly be available on the ICRC website (there are currently delays in fulfilling inquiries about WW2) and possibly also at TNA (see WO 224 in general, and particularly WO 224/127).

There is a three volume book on the subject of British PoWs in WW2, Prisoners of War by JB Hayward, held by TNA and the IWM among others: https://tna.koha-ptfs.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=48771 Vol One contains details of British Army PoWs.


Offline Lee Murphy

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 February 23 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Dear Andy, thank you so much for your help. I did find some information in the national archives about my grandfather:

Name: William Lawson.

Date of Birth: 27/11/1917.

Place of Birth: Huddersfield.

Service: British Army.

Rank: [Bombardier].

Regiment/Unit/Squadron: Royal Artillery.

Service Number: 853390.

Date of Capture: 23/11/1941.

Theatre of Capture: Libya.

Camp Name/Number: Stalag VIII B, Teschen.

PoW number: 34243.

Date of Death: [unspecified].

Number of Photographs: 1.

Number of Fingerprints: 1.

Number of X-rays: 0.

Number of Cards: 1.

I'm not sure how to proceed from here.
Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thank you so much
Dylan Murphy

Offline HMac

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03 February 23 15:37 GMT (UK) »
Apparently he was captured in Libya and reported missing on 1/1/1942 and the records say he was in Italian Hands Camp 65 P.M. 3450 on 23/11/42 and then transferred to German custody.
Is that a typo in your date there? I have him as a POW 26.11.1941
Regards
Hugh
Merchant Navy Research
ss CITY OF CAIRO

Offline Lee Murphy

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 February 23 12:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Hugh, yes he was captured on 23/11/1941.
Thanks
Dylan Murphy

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 07 February 23 21:22 GMT (UK) »
Lee,

If you haven't already found it there's a separate Wikipedia entry for Stalag  VIII D Teschen which was the earlier name for what became Stalag VIII B Teschen. The article reiterates that British Prisoners of War captured in North Africa from Stalag VIII D / B Teschen were employed in Arbeitskommando E 715 adjacent to Auschwitz concentration camp. It also says "In general, the conditions in the main Teschen camp and in all the sub-camps were deplorable."

Offline Lee Murphy

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Re: help with grandfather's WW2 POW records
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 08 February 23 12:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Andy, thank you for this.
Sorry for asking. Do you have any idea how I might find out what happened to my grandfather at this POW camp?
Thank so much.
Kind Regards
Dylan Murphy