Author Topic: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record  (Read 593 times)

Offline vapcq45

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Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« on: Friday 21 April 23 13:02 BST (UK) »
Can anyone kindly help me with attached?

It is hard to understand how my Uncle spent the War as there are a number of abbreviations and statements I cannot fathom.

I see he attested as a 16 year old lad into the TA, joining the 31st Royal Engineers in March 1938 and then called to Military Service in September that year.  Who with?

How come he stayed in UK for the whole of the War?
What does admitted to RMP Lingfield mean?
Was he posted to the Royal Artillery and then moved back to REME?

Generally I would be grateful if anyone can explain the attached to me.

Thanks so much.
(I might have to post the other 2 images separately.



Offline vapcq45

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #1 on: Friday 21 April 23 13:06 BST (UK) »
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Offline vapcq45

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #2 on: Friday 21 April 23 13:07 BST (UK) »
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Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #3 on: Friday 21 April 23 14:16 BST (UK) »
The reason he stayed in the UK during the war was because when he first joined the TA he was in the Royal Engineers as part of the 31st (North Midland) Anti Aircraft Brigade. The Royal Engineers provided the searchlights and the Royal Artillery manned the guns. I know very little about this organisation but clearly during the pre-war period there was a lot of re-organisation within the anti arcraft forces as they prepared for the start of hostilities, and I assume that is what led to his transfer to the Royal Artillery, where he was employed in a Light Anti-Aircraft Battery. So all the references to AA and SLC (searchlight Company?) tie in with that. He then trained as a radio mechanic  with the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC) and when the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers was formed in October 1942, his was one of the trades which transferred to form the new Corps.
That gives you a brief overview of his career.
If you need any specific abbreviations or procedures explaining, please ask. That said, I cannot help with the reference to RMP Lingfield. RMP usually stands for Royal Military Police, but I am not aware of any RMP unit stationed in Lingfield and in any case that wouldn't explain the terms 'admitted' and 'discharged' which suggest a medical facility. Again I know of no medical facility which would have the abbreviation RMP, nor why it would have been at Lingfield. There was a prisoner of war camp on Lingfield racecourse, but that's a red herring.


Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #4 on: Friday 21 April 23 15:21 BST (UK) »
With ref to the Lingfield mention - the word admitted suggests a hospital or other medical facility, otherwise I would expect that words like posted would be used.
And to add to the complexity, Lingfield early in the war was used as a cage for interned enemy aliens.
Simons Barrett Jaffray Waugh Langdale Heugh Meade Garnsey Evans Vazie Mountcure Glascodine Parish Peard Smart Dobbie Sinclair....
in Stirlingshire, Roxburghshire; Bucks; Devon; Somerset; Northumberland; Carmarthenshire; Glamorgan

Offline vapcq45

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #5 on: Friday 21 April 23 16:18 BST (UK) »
Thank you both very much for taking the time to go through and explain his Service.  Makes much more sense now.

Am I wrong in thinking he spent most of the War training? I can't see that he was assigned to a specific area of the UK - would he for example be travelling round the UK working on radar and signals  maintenance?

In Sept 1938 he was called up for Service, then Embodied July 1939, then Disembodied August 1939 then 'Called out for actual Military service' later in the Aug 1939.  What would this mean?

Could RMP Lingfield have been a prison?  (Although I have to say I can find no record of any misdemeanor and I do find that doubtful).

He received the Efficiency Medal - what might this be for?

Thanks for all your help.


Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #6 on: Friday 21 April 23 17:31 BST (UK) »
As you say, he did spend a lot of time in training, but latterly from end of January 1944 I would have expected him to be practising his trade. The location of No2 Radio Mechanics School is unclear and I haven't been able to find out anything online about it.

The embodiment and then disembodiment during the summer of 1939 affected all TA regiments. The aim as much as anything was to ensure that the TA was ready for war but because most TA soldiers had civilian jobs, it was not politically acceptable to have them embodied when war had not actually been declared, even though tensions were high and war seemed obvious.  Britain declared war on Germany on 3 September 1939, and even then that was just the start of what was known as the Phoney War. During this later period the British Expeditionary Force was deployed in France and Belgium and that was the extent of Britain's involvement on the European campaign although clearly the threat of both an invasion and of bombing raids at home was being taken seriously.

No, I don't think RMP Lingfield was a prison. If it had been a civil prison it would obviously have had the title HMP, and there was no designation Royal Military Prison - the service nomenclature was military correction centre. Furthermore since he was only there for 5 days, this was not a sentence of punishment which required him to leave the unit. Any punishment of confinement under 29 days would have been served in the unit guardroom.

The Efficiency Medal was awarded to members of the TA after 12 years of continuous service (both embodied and disembodied). War time service counted as double so most TA soldiers who served throughout the Second World War were eligible for it by 1945.

Offline vapcq45

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 22 April 23 02:11 BST (UK) »
Ah, thank you.  You have helped enormously to clarify his role and I can now get Googling to build some meat round the bones of his story.

I’ve been writing the family history and including the Military Service of all ancestors. This Uncle was one of 7 brothers who fought in WW2. One was with the 65th LAA, one RA Bandsman, another RTR, another with the RA, one a just qualified Flight Sergeant RAF who came down in the Irish Sea aged 19 on their first flight out without an instructor, another REME and my Dad who was too young but helped repair Spitfires.  Their father was with the 2/6th London Field Ambulance and fought in Salonika (mainly) in WW1 having first joined the 2nd York and Lancasters straight from an industrial school where the courts had sent him and a brother (Royal Fusiliers) after their mother was caught begging in the streets. My other Grandad was with the BEF evacuated fron Dunkirk. So many stories needing to be told!

Thanks again. I may have more questions later.

Offline vapcq45

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Re: Help deciphering WW2 Svs Record
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 April 23 18:06 BST (UK) »
Can anyone tell me where my ancestor may have gone for the Annual Camp for 15 days in 1938?  Just after he attested?  He was (see records above:  in 324 Coy, 31st (City of London Rifles) Anti Aircraft Battalion Royal Engineers, Territorial Army.

I believe, the 31st was assigned to the 27th Home Counties Anti Aircraft Group, later Brigade whose HQ was at Lingfield.

Also he was posted to Ranks as Sapper W.E.E.  - what does W.E.E mean?

Any thoughts would be welcome.  Thank you!