Who wants to help me solve a mystery?

[scottishlad]

Thank you all so much for your responses! I guess I thought Mary Ann Devine was just too specific of a name to be different. It's not like it was Mary Ann and a Mary who both married Roberts, and same last name. Looking at the 1846 and 1848 marriage certificates however they are definitely different people. No way the same Mary Ann married 2 years apart and had kids with two separate men at the same time...etc. I guess still doesn't exclude the possibility of relation, but then again there are many many McKenzie's in Scotland haha and yes the family were traveling tinsmiths so they were constantly on the move.

[MonicaL]

Mary Ann and Devine were not uncommon names so not surprising there will be couples with the same name, especially with the name of Robert McKenzie for husband 

I am confused though. Is your family line the Aberdeen line or the Glasgow family? See you mention you have a gg grandfather called Isaac McKenzie which together with the references to tinsmiths, seems to point to the Glasgow family which Forfarian also touched on above. From here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=872402.9

Added: Delete that last comment! See that Isaac McKenzie was son of an Alexander McKenzie and Euphemia Mills. Alexander was then son of an Isaac etc..... So a completely different family to those two being discussed above?

Monica

[scottishlad]

Mary Ann and Devine were not uncommon names so not surprising there will be couples with the same name, especially with the name of Robert McKenzie for husband 

I am confused though. Is your family line the Aberdeen line or the Glasgow family? See you mention you have a gg grandfather called Isaac McKenzie which together with the references to tinsmiths, seems to point to the Glasgow family which Forfarian also touched on above. From here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=872402.9

Monica

I am the Glasgow family. That Isaac is my 4x great grandfather. Robert is his brother. I've already pretty much settled my direct line, so I've been branching out into the siblings and trying to record all of the nieces/nephews.

[scottishlad]

I guess my new question then would be my Robert married Mary Ann Devine in 1848, but then he’s apparently married to a Jessie in 1871 per the Census. I can’t find the death certificate for his Mary Ann. My Robert is a Tinsmith, whereas Aberdeen Robert is listed as an Iron worker on his death cert.

The Mary Ann Devine who died in 1863, her husband I s listed as an “Iron Founder’s Metal Dresser(?)”. So it would appear that is NOT the Mary Ann my Robert was married to.

Oh well more searching to do! Haha

[ecksdochter]

     Might be worth looking at the death for a Mary Ann McKenzie, age 36, 1869 at Greenock. Mother's ms Carle. [Statutory Deaths 564/ 1/ 33]
               Regards, Dod.

[Forfarian]

I think you are over-complicating things.

There are two entirely separate couples who just happen to have the same names.

One Robert McKenzie, born in Aberdeen, married in Aberdeen in 1846 a Mary Ann Devine, who was born in Peterhead. They had at least seven children, including Alexandrina. Mary Ann died in Aberdeen in 1863, and her widowed husband later married Agnes Paterson. He was described as cast iron dresser in the 1861 census, iron founder’s metal dresser on his wife's death certificate, and iron moulder in the 1871 census.

The other Robert McKenzie was a travelling tinsmith. Depending on which census you believe, he was born either in Perth or in Cromarty. He married another Mary Ann Devine in Glasgow in 1848. According to the 1851 census she was born in Edinburgh. In 1871 this Robert was in an encampment in the parish of Cadder with his mother Bridget Townsley, brother Isaac, also a travelling tinsmith, two of Bridget's daughters-in-law, and assorted children.

There is an inconsistency in the names of Bridget's daughters-in-law, who are Mary and Jessie. Some of the children in the census match those of Isaac McKenzie and Harriet Tennant, who were married in Glasgow in 1855. But there is nothing to say that either of them is the wife of either Robert or Isaac, so they could be the wives of other sons of Bridget Townsley.

Robert McKenzie, mother's maiden name Townsley, died in Glasgow in 1887. Have you seen that death certificate? What dies it tell you?

[scottishlad]

I think you are over-complicating things.

There are two entirely separate couples who just happen to have the same names.

One Robert McKenzie, born in Aberdeen, married in Aberdeen in 1846 a Mary Ann Devine, who was born in Peterhead. They had at least seven children, including Alexandrina. Mary Ann died in Aberdeen in 1863, and her widowed husband later married Agnes Paterson. He was described as cast iron dresser in the 1861 census, iron founder’s metal dresser on his wife's death certificate, and iron moulder in the 1871 census.

The other Robert McKenzie was a travelling tinsmith. Depending on which census you believe, he was born either in Perth or in Cromarty. He married another Mary Ann Devine in Glasgow in 1848. According to the 1851 census she was born in Edinburgh. In 1871 this Robert was in an encampment in the parish of Cadder with his mother Bridget Townsley, brother Isaac, also a travelling tinsmith, two of Bridget's daughters-in-law, and assorted children.

There is an inconsistency in the names of Bridget's daughters-in-law, who are Mary and Jessie. Some of the children in the census match those of Isaac McKenzie and Harriet Tennant, who were married in Glasgow in 1855. But there is nothing to say that either of them is the wife of either Robert or Isaac, so they could be the wives of other sons of Bridget Townsley.

Robert McKenzie, mother's maiden name Townsley, died in Glasgow in 1887. Have you seen that death certificate? What dies it tell you?

Yes I have his death certificate it lists him as the widower of Mary Ann Devine. So she was already dead by 1887. That’s why I assumed the 1863 death certificate was her. I guess I never thought Jessie could just be another daughter in law by herself. There was a sibling James married to a Jessie McLaren. I’ll have to follow that thread more. But yes I over complicated with the Roberts, but now still trying to figure out what happened to “my” Mary Ann. Thank you so much for your response!

[Forfarian]

now still trying to figure out what happened to “my” Mary Ann.

I couldn't resist a look at the 1869 death certificate. She was the wife of Robert McKenzie, tinsmith, who was unable to sign his name but made his mark. She died suddenly on 16 February 1869 in the house of Robert McKenzie, tinsmith, at 10 Taylor's Close, Greenock, and the Register of Corrected Entries lists the cause as heart disease. Parents Peter Devine and Mary Carle.

Just as an aside, that seems to suggest that they only travelled in the better weather but had a fixed house to return to in the winter months.

[scottishlad]

now still trying to figure out what happened to “my” Mary Ann.

I couldn't resist a look at the 1869 death certificate. She was the wife of Robert McKenzie, tinsmith, who was unable to sign his name but made his mark. She died suddenly on 16 February 1869 in the house of Robert McKenzie, tinsmith, at 10 Taylor's Close, Greenock, and the Register of Corrected Entries lists the cause as heart disease. Parents Peter Devine and Mary Carle.

Just as an aside, that seems to suggest that they only travelled in the better weather but had a fixed house to return to in the winter months.

Incredible thank you! I will follow up. Yes exactly they would settle somewhere during the winters and then head out again when it was warmer. They were largely itinerate though.