Royal Tank Corps 1937, 1st Light Tank, Waziristan, India

[vapcq45]

Hi

I'd be grateful if anyone can help or point me in the direction for more information.

My Uncle Bill Loftus RTC (RTR) was 20 when he sailed to Karachi on 11th November 1937 as a Private with the 1st Light Tank Company.  (He'd just finished his training at, I guess, Bovington.  I'm guessing also he went to Raznak Camp for duties re Waziristan campaign, but would like to know.  There may have been several camps.

Bill was there until 31st March 1939.  He passed his trade test as a driver in May 1938.

Would he have driven a Vickers Mk VI?
Any idea what the 1st Lt Tank's role was out there?
Did 1st Lt Tank go to Peshawar?

Any information would be great, thank you!

[AlanBoyd]

If you go to this page about the Royal Tank Corps:

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Royal_Tank_Corps

you will find information and these links to "Report on Operations in Waziristan 25th November 1936 to 15th December 1937" in the London Gazette Supplement, which are organised as Phases 1,2 and 3.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34449/supplement/6811

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34484/supplement/1057

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34520/supplement/3819

[ShaunJ]

The 1st Light Tank Company was previously 1st Armoured Car Company, and it kept its armoured cars.

"The 1st Light Tank Co took part in operations in Waziristan during 1937.
Although redesignated "Light Tank Company", the 1st remained equipped with armoured cars"

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Royal_Tank_Corps#Light_Tanks

"Although later redesignated "Light Tank Company", the 1st , 6th and 11th remained equipped with armoured cars."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071121044904/http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/reg-cav/armdcar.htm

[vapcq45]

Thank you Alan the Gazette is really useful.  I found the one for 1937/38 which covers my ancestors first year.

Thanks also Shaun.  Interesting that the 1st remained equipped with armoured cars.

Do you know if the 1st would have been at Ramzak, or another Camp?

Also, did they then go to Peshawar in 1938?  If so, why?

[vapcq45]

On my Uncle's Military History, in 1937/38 it states his service is counted as Indian.

What does this mean, particularly as the following year still India his service counts as British.

Also from April 39 to Nov 39 in India and April 41 at Home he is transferred to the Royal Armoured Corps and listed as a Trooper.  Any idea why this might have been?  (Still in India).

Thank you!

[Andy J2022]

On my Uncle's Military History, in 1937/38 it states his service is counted as Indian.

What does this mean, particularly as the following year still India his service counts as British.

Also from April 39 to Nov 39 in India and April 41 at Home he is transferred to the Royal Armoured Corps and listed as a Trooper.  Any idea why this might have been?  (Still in India).

This may answer your question about his India service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_India
Just as there was a shortage of suitable Indian officers to fill the higher command positions in the British Indian Army, it may well have been difficult to recruit, at least initially, Indians for the more technical role of the armoured car companies (the Indian Army of this period was still largely unmechanised). Therefore British drivers trained in the UK may have been used to provide a cadre within the Indian units to get them trained up and operationally effective. Once this had been achieved the British personnel could return to the British Army in India. I don't think it made any difference in terms of promotion prospects or pay etc.

[vapcq45]

Thanks very much Andy, this does explain.  I'm sure I'll have more questions as I work through his papers. 

Thanks again!

[vapcq45]

I would appreciate some help with this page.

Bill was with the 55th Training Regiment RAC for a few months before being posted to 8th Battalion RTR.  His sheet says location Salford?  Would this be correct?

I know that the 4th and 7th and 8th were part of the 1st Tank Brigade and that the 4th and 7th served in France, returning to UK in 1940.  The 4th remained on Home defence and the 7th went to Egypt in August 1940.

Why would the 8th have been in UK for so long?

Where would 'Field' have been.

Is there anywhere you can recommend I look to find out more about their location and role?  War diaries?

Where did they go in the Middle East initially?  (I think they ended up at Tobruk).

Hope you can help with some of this.  Thanks very much.

[Andy J2022]

Why would the 8th have been in UK for so long?

I can't say for certain but it's possible that they were waiting to be equipped with their tanks and then doing their work up training. In other words they may not have been operationally ready to be deployed.

Where would 'Field' have been.

Field means Field  Conditions. One source I have looked at says they were based in Perham Down Camp on Salisbury Plain. This would have been either tented accommodation or wooden huts. 'Field Conditions' means that the troops are not required to pay for their food and accommodation and that the amenities will be very limited.

Is there anywhere you can recommend I look to find out more about their location and role?  War diaries?

There is a regimental history of the 8 RTR in North Africa: Stuart Hamilton Armoured odyssey : 8th Royal Tank Regiment in the Western Desert 1941-1942, Palestine, Syria, Egypt 1943-1944, Italy 1944-1945. London : Tom Donovan, 1995. ISBN: 1871085306.
The war diaries are scattered around a bit within the National Archive holdings:
WO 169/1408 1 Sep 1939 - 28 Feb 1941
WO 169/1418  1 Apr 1941 - 31 Dec 1941 
WO 169/4513  1942
WO 170/9367  1943
WO 170/857    1944 (less Feb)
WO 169/15978  1 Feb 1944 -28 Feb 1944
WO 170/4637   1 Jan 1945 - 30 Sep 1945
WO 166/16615  1Oct 1945 - 31 Dec 1945

Where did they go in the Middle East initially?  (I think they ended up at Tobruk).

It seems they first went to 4 Armoured Brigade which was in support of 4th Indian Infantry Division and were deployed to Syria and Lebanon. They were equipped with Valentine infantry tanks, which as their name suggests were intended to fight alongside the Infantry so were more lightly armoured than main battle tanks.  They then returned to North Africa and, still equipped with Valentines, took part in Operation Crusader in November and December 1941.  In mid 1943 8 RTR had its tanks taken away and went to form part of No 36 Beach Brick and sent to Palestine to prepare for the assault landing on Rhodes. This operation was later cancelled and the men of 8 RTR were re-equipped with tanks and deployed back to the UK in readiness for D Day.

Added: Having just checked Bill's earlier record sheet, since he was taken as a POW in 1942 the last couple of sentences are irrelevant to his story.