Scroggs Mill and Latimer Lettimer Lottimer

[JuneNZ]

George Latimer and Agnes Graham were married and resided at Scroggs Mill, DF, in the mid 1800’s.
Their headstone is in the Tundergarth Graveyard, also detailed on the headstone is their daughter Agnes Lottimer who as far as I can research was their daughter christened Nancy in 1836.

Her age/date of death recorded on the headstone is off. However researching her I can only find reference to a claim for support for her illigitimate daughter Agnes born 1860 whose father was John Campbell. (Not the John Campbell and Agnes of the Glasgow area.)

Her half brother William and Jane, children of George Lettimer and Anne Murray emigrated to New Zealand.

I thought that Scroggs Mill was a single building/farm however was it a village?

There are an Agnes and Catherine Lettimer in Wigton, Cumberland who fit the sisters approximate age however there are also other Lettimer people there.

Would anyone know the area or Latimer, Lettimer, Lattimer, Lottimer family history?

Regards, June

[HistoricalGenealogy]

I thought that Scroggs Mill was a single building/farm however was it a village?

Scroggs Mill is a building, not a village.

“18th century, 3-storey (probably 1755) corn mill raised and remodelled first half of 19th century; being converted 1980's to form house and garage retaining much interior machinery; detached single storey 3-bay centre-doored late 18th/early 19th century cottage to W renovated circa 1980, with additional bay added. All rubble-built with ashlar dressings. Sash windows with 4-pane glazing pattern. Slate roofs. MILL: 18th century openings with chamfered reveals (some blocked), 19th century work with stugged red ashlar dressings, some 20th century slappings. Rectangular-plan, and built against steep bank. N end wall with ashlar marking wheel mounting, gabled near-centre loft opening to W with forestair; garage at S end. Axial stack. COTTAGE: whitewashed, with painted margins; additional bay rubble-faced; straight skews; end stacks. North elevation altered.”

-https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/200334504-scroggs-mill-dryfesdale
&
-https://portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/LB3451

They resided in the house Scroggs Mill.

[AlanBoyd]

Beautiful map from 1851 here:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/216586465

The mill is over at the extreme left, about half way up (or down)

There is also a site labelled Scrogs close by to the SW of the mill on this map:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/228777325

[JuneNZ]

Thank you both for this really interesting information. When you are researching families it is hard to picture where they resided and it is amazing that the historic buildings have such great detail recorded. 

[maddys52]

There are a few advertisements for Scroggs Mill in newspapers from the early 1800s with descriptions (one mentions "the farm of Scroggs" near Scroggs Mill. None that mention the LATIMERs though. Happy to send you copies if you are interested.

[maddys52]

Btw, Nancy and Agnes can be considered the same name, lots of examples on the web - here's one blog about it
https://www.nancy.cc/2012/03/16/should-we-redefine-the-name-nancy/
"In Scotland Nancy has long been used synonymously with Agnes"

[JuneNZ]

It makes research interesting doesn’t it with all these alternative versions of names!

1841 Census has George Lettimer, wife Agnes, 5 young children and 4 workers at Scroggs Mill. 1851 Census the couple with 7 children, 1861 George aged 58 and Agnes and 6 children. 1871 the couple and 5 family members. 1881 son John Lattimer, Miller at Scroggs Cottage with his sister/housekeeper Mary Lattimer. 1891 John Lettimer aged 40, Miller at Scroggs Mill.

Other names at Scroggs Cottage vary over the years, Bell, Carlyle, Rogerson, Halliday. Interestingly the Cottages were detailed as being in the Tundergarth Parish area and the Mill in Dryfesdale.

[AlanBoyd]

These are all entries from Slater's Royal National Commercial Directory of Scotland

1867, DUMFRIES-SHIRE, LOCKERBIE AND THE PARISHES OF DRYFESDALE, SAINT MUNGO, TUNDERGARTH AND APPLEGARTH

FARMERS
In Dryfesdale Parish
Latimer George, Scroggs mill

In Tundersgarth Parish
Renwick John, Scroggs

MILLERS
Latimer, George, Scroggs Mill

****

1882, DUMFRIES-SHIRE, LOCKERBIE

FARMERS
In Tundersgarth Parish
Rogerson Andrew, John & William, Scroggs

FARMERS
In Dryfyrsdale Parish
Latimer George, Scroggs mill

MILLERS
Latimer George, Scroggs Mill

***

1893, DUMFRIES-SHIRE
FARMERS
Carlyle, Bros., Scroggs, Tundergarth, Lockerbie
Latimer Geo., Scroggs mill, Lockerbie


***

1896, DUMFRIES-SHIRE
SAW-MILL OWNERS
Latimer George, Scroggs Mill, Lockerbie

***

Also this entry in the 1882 Annual Report of the Fishery Board for Scotland reveals who actually owned the mill:

Obstructions to the Passage of Fish–
...
2. With regard to the obervance of bye-laws [a list of cases, including]
On the Milk– No heck at intake or tail of the mill race at Scroggs Mill, belonging to the Earl of Mansfield, but there is a heck across the lade at the entrance to the wheel, which is placed close on the Milk water.

From the Oxford Shorter English Dictionary:
heck
noun, chiefly Scot. and N. English
A grating or frame of parallel bars in a river used to obstruct the passage of fish or solid bodies without obstructing the flow of water.

lade
noun, chiefly Scot.
A channel for leading water to a mill wheel; a mill race.

[AlanBoyd]

Driving south on the B7068 east of Lockerbie.

1. Just about to cross the bridge over the Water of Milk, looking east. This is the entrance to the site of the mill, showing a small cottage. Note the nameplate on the right of the entrance.

2. A closeup of the nameplate.