Author Topic: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?  (Read 568 times)

Offline Buffnut453

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Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« on: Saturday 08 July 23 02:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Folks,

I have a will and probate record written in Latin...or at least a subsequent record related to a deceased relative's will and probate.  I can't even transliterate the document let alone translate it into English.  Are there any resources or Forum members out there who may be able to help? 

Many tks in advance.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 08 July 23 11:25 BST (UK) »
Yes, there are several forum members who can help with old handwriting and Latin, and this board is the place to ask. You can upload images of documents - a bit at a time if necessary, as we need to be able to read them - and we'll do our best to help.

If you'd like to try by yourself first, the thing to search for on handwriting is a palaeography tutorial. I don't have the exact links, I'm afraid, but there's one at the National Archives website, and I've also come across them at some university sites - Nottingham, Hull and Cambridge come to mind.

A full grasp of Latin would take a bit longer to acquire, but there are a number of online translation tools. If you prefer a book, there's 'A Latin Glossary for Family and Local Historians' by Janet Morris, and 'Latin for Local and Family Historians' by Denis Stuart, and probably others too.

Probate clauses (the part in Latin that follows a will) usually follow a fairly standard pattern and all have more or less the same words, but they were often written in a contracted or abbreviated form. If you search for 'Latin probate clause example' (without quotes) you should find something helpful.

The collective knowledge and experience here is probably equal to any of the resources I've mentioned, but it's up to you - either try on your own first and ask if/when you get stuck, or just post the details straight away.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 July 23 07:32 BST (UK) »
Thanks arthurk.  I'll post the image in segments...although i recognize that I may not be dividing the document at logical break points.

The document relates to the will and probate of Ellis Ambrose of Bickerstaffe, Lancashire.  From what I can tell, it's not an actual will and probate record since Ellis Ambrose died in 1724 but the record dates from the following year.  I believe it's a demand for Ellis' widow, Mary, to complete administration of the will.

Here's the first segment.  Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 July 23 13:57 BST (UK) »
Doing a full transcription and translation can be fairly time-consuming, and for this extract would probably tell you very little of interest to your family research. So the gist of it is:

Lines 1-5 (Lancelottus .... Salutem) - Because there's a vacancy in the Diocese of Chester, Lancelot, Archbishop of York is writing to Henry Topping, who holds some position (Appr...?) for the Deanery of Warrington in the Diocese of Chester.
Lines 5-8 - Topping is being required to get Mary Ambrose, widow, relict and executrix of Ellis Ambrose late of Bickersteth to prove his will before the Archbishop or his lawful surrogate

There were a few abbreviated words that I couldn't quite work out, but I'm fairly confident in the overall meaning.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Bookbox

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 July 23 21:38 BST (UK) »
There were a few abbreviated words that I couldn't quite work out, but I'm fairly confident in the overall meaning.

I agree with the interpretation posted above by arthurk. As mentioned, it takes time to get one’s head around these documents. I hope Buffnut453 has found the above useful.

Just to add, Henry Topping was the Apparitor – the church-court official tasked with issuing summons to the parties and witnesses.

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 July 23 04:56 BST (UK) »
Many, MANY thanks for the insights provided.  That information tallies with other details I've gleaned from English language documents that Mary Ambrose was overdue in settling her husbands will.  The machinations rolled on into 1726 but it seems eventually all was resolved. 

I have another Latin text that I'll post in a day or two, together with an English-language document that follows immediately after it. 

Again, many thanks for the info.

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 13 July 23 03:34 BST (UK) »
Here's the top part of the final probate record dating from, I think, 19 May 1726.  Mary Ambrose is mentioned, as is a Thomas Haselden of Rainford who appears in other Ambrose family will and probate records. 

I'd be interested to learn if there are any additional insights from this Latin portion of the document.

Many thanks in advance. 

Offline Watson

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 13 July 23 09:51 BST (UK) »
This is a bond, dated 19 May 1726, by which Mary Ambrose, of Bickersteth, Lancs., widow, Thomas Hasleden, of Rainford, Lancs., clothier, and John Doe (presumably, a fictitious bondsman to make up the numbers), are bound in the sum of £50.

Another section should contain the condition of the obligation.


Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Any resources for Latin will and probate records?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 13 July 23 15:36 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Watson.  You're absolutely correct.  Immediately below this Latin text is an English language section describing the condition of the bond.  The following page is an itemized inventory of Ellis Ambrose's estate.  Sadly, there's no record of the beneficiaries, simply that Mary Ambrose, Ellis's widow, was executrix.