John F Smith born approx 1857

[Zane81]

Hi all.

I am trying to figure out how to identify a John Smith out of seemingly infinite number of John Smiths. The one in particular I am looking for immigrated to Rockhampton Australia in 1885 on the ship Roma, which departed from Glasgow. It lists him as being 28, single, English and from county Durham. His name on this record is John F Smith.
From this, assuming he has given correct details to immigration personnel, then he was born around 1857 somewhere in Durham county. Unfortunately, that is all I have to work with and have hit a brick wall in my research.

My great-great grandfather John Smith died approximately 3 weeks after my great-great grandmother Emma Curry from Newcastle Upon-Tyne became pregnant with their son. She gave birth to my great grandfather John Anthony Smith in 1888 in Bundaberg, Queensland. She married James Clayton in 1890 and changed her sons name to John Anthony Clayton. If it wasn't for a birth record I was able to find while researching the Clayton line, we would never have known that we are actually Smith's and not Clayton's! I am able to trace the Clayton line back quite far, but I have absolutely no idea what branch of the Smith's we belong to.

Any help would be very appreciated.
Cheers

[Tickettyboo]

Welcome to Rootschat.
Providing you have the image of the passenger list and its been transcribed correctly I can't see a John Smith with a middle name of F* in the GRO for 1857 +/-2, though the number of John Smiths is indeed legion!

I can see that you know when he died, I believe that Australian death certificates have parental details, where they were known to the informant -do you have that record?
Armed with the names of his parents we may be able to narrow the field down.

Boo

[hepburn]

I'm not having any luck with the marriage of Emma Curry and John Smith.

[Tickettyboo]

FindMyPast
has this birth which is the most likely I can see in the index

John Anthony Smith
Birth date: 31/05/1888
State Queensland
Registration no: 1888/C/7443
Mother: Emily Curry
Father: John Smith

So that has the mother as Emily, not Emma?

Boo

[wivenhoe]

 "She gave birth to my great grandfather John Anthony Smith in 1888 in Bundaberg, Queensland"

* Can you please list all the information on this birth certificate, 1888.

* Can you please list all the information on the death certificate of your great great grandfather ....who died before his son was born, 1888

 "She married James Clayton in 1890"

* Can you list all the information on this marriage certificate, 1890.

[Milliepede]

Is there an occupation listed for him on the passenger list? 

Emma Curry from Newcastle Upon-Tyne

What about a passenger list for Emma/Emily?

[Zane81]

 "She gave birth to my great grandfather John Anthony Smith in 1888 in Bundaberg, Queensland"

* Can you please list all the information on this birth certificate, 1888.

* Can you please list all the information on the death certificate of your great great grandfather ....who died before his son was born, 1888

 "She married James Clayton in 1890"

* Can you list all the information on this marriage certificate, 1890.

Thanks all for the responses. I'll direct my answers to this quote because it covers mostly everything.

On John Anthony's birth record, it lists his father as:

"John Smith: deceased 29th September 1887. Parents: Unknown.
Married to Emily Curry April 1886, Rockhampton, Queensland. But in the next column "certified by" it gets her name correct as Emma.

^^ This information was how I was able to find his death record and the coronial inquest.

On his death certificate, it says
Date: "On or about the 28th September, 1887."
Name and surname, rank or profession: "John Smith, laborer"
Sex and age: "Male about 30"
Cause of death: "Exposure, lost in bush"
Name and surname of father and mother: "Unknown"

On Emma's marriage certificate to James Clayton, her details are:
Brides name: Emma Smith
Residence: Bundaberg
Condition: Widow
Age: 28 (she lied here, she was 35 by this stage, marrying a 22 year old. She ended up dying in 1936 while James lived up until 1964).
Birthplace: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Fathers name: Henry Curry
Mother's name: Isabella (Trimmer? Swimmer? It's not clear)
Marriage date: 24th June, 1890

With all of this information, I was able to search the Arrivals information for the years prior to their alleged wedding in 1886 in Rockhampton. (I say alleged because I have a feeling she might have said they were married after he died because she was pregnant. She does not even know his parents names, so there is a good chance they had a quick fling and that was that. There is no official record of their marriage).
Assuming it is correct that he was 30 at the time of his death in 1887, then going through the John Smith's who arrived in the years prior to 1882, the only one who is the approximate correct age and who landed in Rockhampton is John F Smith, as listed in my first post from Durham. I use Rockhampton as the arrival port because she claims they were married there, and that is the closest port of arrival to Terrick Terrick station, where he worked as a laborer.

The biggest hole in my plan is that I don't know what year he arrived. He could have been there for 10 years before he met Emma for all I know.

Big mess to untangle!

[Neale1961]

A few thoughts for the moment, Zane. (I will look more, when I have more time.)

It is possible they were married at Terrick Terrick, but it never got recorded in the registration office, as the nearest town was probably Blackall – a long way to travel by horse or foot. They may have been married by a travelling minister, and the records are still held in the church that he was associated with. Perhaps contacting the Blackall family history centre will give you more information in that regard.

For further reading about Terrick Terrick : There is a diary by a J.W. Dickens, who had lived and worked on Terrick in some managerial role over the period 1882-98. It may / or may not give you some useful information.
Also about Terrick Terrick history (click the PDF file and prove you are human)  https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:205777

I think you possibly have the correct shipping record for John Smith – he is recorded on it as a “labourer”. He was also a bounty passenger.
He would probably be a labourer when you search in the 1881 census. If he boarded the ship in Scotland, I wonder if he may have been in Scotland for the 1881 census and was recruited there?

It is also worth searching newspapers through Trove to see if anything come up in relation to Smith and Terrick. (Trove is not working for me today.)

[Zane81]

A few thoughts for the moment, Zane. (I will look more, when I have more time.)

It is possible they were married at Terrick Terrick, but it never got recorded in the registration office, as the nearest town was probably Blackall – a long way to travel by horse of foot. They may have been married by a travelling minister, and the records are still held in the church that he was associated with. Perhaps contacting the Blackall family history centre will give you more information in that regard.

Interesting point. I had not considered the distance between Terrick and Blackall which I now see would be a few days walk or a full days hard ride.

In his death inquest, a worker at Terrick called Thomas Kent said: 'I last saw him about one month before. He was going into Blackall. He said he was "going in for a feed of Rum". I never saw him alive again.' Thomas was interviewed on the 30th September 1887, so this means John left Terrick around the start of September. His body was found on the 28th September, and it was noted that he had been dead for several days by that point, so he could have been dead around the 23-25 September. His swag was found 3 miles from Terrick station, so a search party was sent out. They found his body about 5 miles from his swag. So it looks like he had made it most of the way back to the station before he died.

Using an online calculator, I determined that Emma would have fallen pregnant most likely between the 6-10th September, but with a possible range of conception dates of 5th-15th September, but the earliest date they could have had intercourse was August 31st. This places Emma in Blackall! Intriguing, I had always assumed she stayed in Rockhampton. The Blackall historical society may have something about this.