Daniel Coates trying to find his birth. Have marriage in 1769

[AmandaC9134]

Hi,

I have found my ancestors marriage - Daniel Coates, Marriage, 27 Aug 1769, Gloucester, St Mary De Crypt, Gloucestershire, England.  Parish as it appears Nortonin.  Spouse Elizabeth James

Based on that I try to search for Daniel Coates birth, by searching on 1748 +/- 10 years (my best guess at the "right" year range) then I can see two likely Baptism entries that might be him, in Gloucestershire.

Daniel Coates, 17 Jan 1742 ,Brockworth Gloucestershire, England

Daniel Coates, 20 Sep 1747 Bisley , Gloucestershire, England

Given that Parish records have so little detail on them, how do I tell which one is correct? 

I do apologise if this is a "stupid question".  Would be grateful for any pointers on what to do next.

Many thanks

[mckha489]

I always first look at burials in the few years following the baptism.
If one died young he isn’t yours.

Otherwise it’s an extension of the same, see if you can follow the families of both of them in the register
Siblings etc. sometimes yield a clue

Are there any wills?

[mckha489]

The date you quote is part of the Banns which were read at St Mary de Crypt because Daniel was “of ye parish”
The marriage took place 16 Oct 1769 at St Michael, Gloucester, which was Elizabeth’s parish (as stated in the banns notice)
What bad luck that October entry is so ripped!

[AmandaC9134]

Thank you mckha489 for replying and for your suggestions.  I do appreciate it, as I am still quite new at this and having been doing okay until I reached 1700s where it seems so much harder.

re: your first reply - those are the things I will look at next, thank you
re: your second reply - yes very bad luck that page is ripped.

Thanks again

[Capetown]

If you haven't already registered with

Forest of Dean Family History

https://forest-of-dean.net

(this is free, you just have to register), suggest this would help your research.  All the records have been transcribed.
Under Resources heading of the website is

Gloucestershire Marriage Licence Allegations 1637 - 1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823.

-------

The website has a Soundex box as surnames can be spelt differently.  For example: COATS and COATES.

---

Daniel COATES of Brockworth.  His Licence is on the above website 13 February 1747

Daniel COATES (Widower) residence:  Brockworth
Ann ORGAN aged 30 (Spinster) residence: Brockworth

By Licence

Marriage Allegation.  To marry at Brockworth.  Sworn before J Gregory

Memoranda: Old style date 1746/7. 
This is because the Calendar was changed.

----

In the Parish Records is your Daniel COATES marriage transcribed

Record ID 85235

16 October 1769

Daniel COATES residence: of the parish of St Mary de Crypt

Elizabeth JAMES of this parish

By Banns

Date of Banns: September 24th & October 8th & 15th 1769

Both sign (which shows they could write their names, unlike signing with an X if they couldn't do so.

Witness 1: William WEBLEY (appears on many weddings, Parish Clerk.  I did see his title on one record, will re-check.

Witness 2: Amelia  QUARINGTON

Officiating Minister John PALMER: Rector.

-----

The Forest of Dean website has an Advanced Search which can be used in different ways.

I had a quick look to see if DANIEL COATES had been a witness at any other wedding

and on the 25 January 1773

When William POWELL, of the parish of Bromsborough in the County of Gloucester
married Jane WOORE  By Licence

They both sign

Witness 1: DANIEL COATES
Witness 2: William WEBLEY

John Palmer:  Rector

----

It just adds interest as it would seem William POWELL and Daniel COATES knew each other.


----

Most of the records on the Forest of Dean site, have been transcribed for that particular area.  But the Marriage Bonds and Licences cover the whole of Gloucestershire.

Hope this helps.

Will have another look later on.

[Capetown]

As I don't have access to Ancestry etc any more ....

I can see a baptism on the Forest of Dean website

25 September 1774

Richard COATES

father: Daniel
mother: Betty

Officiating Minster : Hugh Price

Parish/Chapel Gloucester St Mary de Lobe

---

Family names are an important source of research

[AmandaC9134]

Hi Capetown,

Thank you very much for your comments, they are appreciated.

In your responses you've found the same things I have, which helps my confidence levels, thank you 

Yes Richard Coates baptism you found is their son, I found him and his baptism first (as I had started from descendants of him, working back), then I identified from Richard's baptism that his father Daniel Coates and mother Elizabeth (Betty) Coates.

Next I was trying to find out more for Daniel Coates and Elizabeth (Betty) Coates, I'd found the marriage of 16 October 1769 Daniel COATES and Elizabeth JAMES, however my next logical step was to find a baptism for Daniel Coates and at that point I got stuck.  Couldn't find an obvious baptism and hence the post.

Thank you for suggesting the Forest of Dean site Gloucestershire Marriage Licence Allegations and Bonds.  I will have a look. 

I am also going to try what mckha489 suggested - for the Daniel Coates baptisms I have seen and not sure about, look to see if any of them died young, to rule them out.

Isn't it hard looking this far back!?!?!?

[Capetown]

'Isn't it hard looking far back??'

Not sure if you are aware of

Men in Armour for Gloucestershire in 1608.

This is an on-line database containing information on occupation, stature and age for nearly 20,000 men in Gloucestershire UK.  'Thus, it contains a fairly complete list of all the men from the ages of 16 to 60 in Gloucestershire in 1608 and is particularly useful for tracing ancestors in the early 17th century

This can be found on

Coaley.net  (and under the Heading: LOCAL HISTORY)

https://coaley.net

To search: Just put in the the surname: COA - as COATES  and other surnames has variations.

The only ones I can see are residing in

CHEDWORTH  (CHELTENHAM)

Richard COATES husbandman A20 lower stature. trained
William COATS husbandman A20 middle stature
Robert COATS husbandman A20 lower stature

------

If you then click on the Help Page on the above website

This gives you a guide to the above

A20 - Shows the age of that man to be about twenty

lower stature - shows that man to be of a lower stature fit to serve with a caliver
middle stature - shows that man to be of a middle stature fit to make a musketeer

Husbandman : means a person who cultivates the land; a farmer

-----
So, three young COATS/COATES in Chedworth, Cheltenham and can't see any more in other places.

-----

Also on the Coaley : Under the Heading : Local History - is the Gloucestershire Population tables (every ten years from 1801 to 1901) again very useful to see how big a village/town etc. was.

---


Checked the Forest of Dean Website for Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations and Marriage Bonds

There are 14 COTES/COATES/COATS listed for Chedworth - the early 1637 for a Thomas COATES.


There is on Men in Amour for Gloucestershire

Cirencester (Instrope Street)

Gilbert COTES mason A40 Middle stature

------

Forest of Dean Website: Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations etc : do have 4 COTES in Chedworth/Chadworth (?assume transcription error for the spelling of Chedworth - or how it was spelt then)

Gabriel - 1666
Richard - 1684 *
Alice - 1684
Sarah - 1711

(so there seems to be at least 3 variations of the surname)


Another option is to take a DNA test and upload your results on the website.
------



* 19 December 1684

Richard COTES aged 30  - residence: Chadworth
Alice COATES aged 39 - residence: Chadworth

By Licence
He signs

Memorands: Bondsman: Philip GLOVER, Cumton Abdale, he marks


-----

BISLEY Glos. was known for Broadweaving in the 18th century.

According to the populations tables on Coaley.net

in 1801

Brockworth was 1,957 acres and a population of 350  (seems agricultural area)

Bisley was 7,927 acres and a population of 4,227 (more industry)


---

Checking on Gloucestershire Will Index (Just Google: Gloucestershire Genelogical Database)

There is

1735 COATES Thomas  - Parish Bisley : Inventories (occupation Broadweaver)
1735 COATES Thomas  - Parish Bisley: Wills (occupation Broadweaver)

[AmandaC9134]

Thank you very much Capetown, some good sources for the 1600 there that I didn't know about.

It looks to me that there is a gap in the Parish records

On the Gloucestershire Family History site it says the records available for births/deaths/marriages are dated from 1837.  What I need is before that, so I'm thinking I need to get in touch and ask if records of births/marriages/deaths are available before that.