Strathaven Brick Wall

[goldie61]

I thought I'd done that! 
I know I looked at the other registers for a lot of the others.
Must have missed that one.   

[Genie24]

Thank you so much to everyone. I can't believe this amazing response. It has certainly given me a lot to think about.

Scotland's People has always been my 'go to' place for my Scottish searches but I have noticed missing records before. I need to look at familysearch.org more thoroughly. I did look but I need to focus my search better.

 I looked up my nearest LDS Affiliate centre and it is in the next town so I will have to try and get there to have  a look. 

I found the 1812 birth which isn't on Scotland's People and have looked at one tree which suggests this Thomas's mother was Martha Struthers and wife Elizabeth Wilson. I need to look further.

I have ruled out the 1808 birth. This was the only entry on Scotland's People I could find with father Thomas and mother Agnes. However, I found the death records of a few of the children which does confirm the mother was McKenzie. I had put this information hypothetically in my tree to see what hints popped up  but now  I am going to remove it. It is interesting to note that James records his mother as Ann Browning on his 2nd marriage record. I just noticed this so will also search for births with mother Ann.

I also thought I had checked the 'other churches' search facility. It looks like this is the explanation that some births are on Scotland's People and some are not if the church was built in 1846. So, I take it the marriage in 1837/38 and earlier baptisms must have been elsewhere and most likely in a Catholic church.

The exact birthdate for Agnes Hamilton on the 15th May 1843 came from her death certificate in 1923 in Pennsylvania. This does agree with her age at time of marriage. She was 22 in 1865.

James Hamilton records his birthplace as Strathaven on the census records but I assume Strathaven covers both Strath and Avondale. I have lots of Hamiltons from Avondale. We have many DNA links to the Houses of Hamilton and Weir.

I very much appreciate everyone's efforts. Thank you.

[Forfarian]

James Hamilton records his birthplace as Strathaven on the census records but I assume Strathaven covers both Strath and Avondale.

No. Other way round. Strathaven is a small town in the parish of Avondale, so (a) there are no separate parish records for Strathaven and (b) there will be records of people in Avondale who were not in Strathaven.

As for FamilySearch, if you find a listing there which does not match an actual record on Scotland's People, be very cautious. Basically, what is on FS is an index to some (not all) of the original records, not actual records as such. So if something turns up on FS that isn't based on Scotland's People, you need to track down the source document to be sure that it's authentic and not a figment of someone's imagination.

Does anyone know if there are large chunks of the Strathaven registers missing

See https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/old-parish-registers/list-of-old-parish-registers but make sure to look for Avondale, not Strathaven.

or is there anywhere other than Scotland's People I can search?

Not really. The vast majority of surviving Scottish church records are on Scotland's People. The only surviving ones missing are those of some minor denominations, including the Episcopal, Congregational and Baptist churches. Those are in various places including local authority, university or diocesan archives.

I also thought I had checked the 'other churches' search facility. It looks like this is the explanation that some births are on Scotland's People and some are not if the church was built in 1846. So, I take it the marriage in 1837/38 and earlier baptisms must have been elsewhere and most likely in a Catholic church.

Generally speaking, what determines whether or not they are on SP is whether or not the records, if they ever existed, have survived. The 'other churches' are mostly those whose registers are held by the National Records of Scotland rather than by the Registrar General. The date when the church was built is irrelevant because some congregations existed for a time before they could afford to build a church; and also many churches were built on the sites of, or as replacements for, older churches.

See the Statistical Account of Avondale http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sx3/ for some information about which denominations existed in Avondale in the 1790s. There is no mention of Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, Congregationalists or Baptists. All the denominations actually named are splinter groups of the Church of Scotland.

[Forfarian]

There is a baptism on familysearch.org for a James Hamilton 29 July 1812 at Strathaven. Father Thomas. No mother's name given in the transcript. No image.
From 'Scotland births and Baptisms film 1564 - 1950'.
This record again doesn't seem to appear on Scotlandspeople.

Yes, it does appear on SP. It's in the 'Other Churches' baptisms - with an image of the original.

[Genie24]

Well, I was about the purchase the record but was reluctant as these early baptisms hold very little information. I decided to do a bit of digging first. I found that there were 7 other siblings baptised at Strathaven Associate to Thomas Hamilton including twin boys. So, I put them into my tree to hopefully allow me to 'break into' someone's tree. As I previously thought, these children had mother Martha Struthers. The youngest daughter was Martha. This James married Elizabeth Wilson and died in 1867 in Shawtonhill.

I think, for now,I am going to work on the assumption that James is the likely son of Thomas Hamilton,  Master Baker and Agnes Browning as they are named on his marriage and death record.  I have to assume that he did marry Margaret Hendrie in 1837 or 1838 as the children start arriving very shortly  after. I have to accept that the documentary evidence, in the form of marriage record and baptisms of the earliest children are missing.

When I first discovered this match and the suggested Thrulines, I did what I often do and put the suggested path into my tree. Then I start at the bottom and work up to the top trying to verify it. It is absolutely correct up to Agnes Hamilton 1843 but then it starts to go wrong. But, I know from her marriage record that her parents are James Hamilton, Master Slater and Margaret Hendrie. and I know from James Hamilton's marriage and death that his parents are Thomas Hamilton and Agnes Browning. So I am now trying to identify this Thomas in the hope that it leads me to working out how he connects to my Hamilton main line.  I think I have him on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census. He was living in the Village of Catrine, Sorn, Ayrshire with wife Janet. I assume this is his 2nd wife. I worked out she was Janet Woodrow.She was born in Sorn and Thomas continued to live there after her death in 1860. I can't find him on the 1871 so assume he died between 1861 and 1871 but can't find any evidence.

Thomas records his birth on the census records as 1801, 1798, 1797 in Stonehouse. There are 3 possible births within that time frame. 27th March 1796 with parents James Hamilton and Margaret Miller, 31st December 1797 with parents George Hamilton and Anna Forbes and 25th October 1801with parents George Hamilton and Ann Prentice.

[Genie24]

I think I have worked it out or have nearly worked it out. I ruled out these parents for Thomas. James Hamilton and Margaret Miller. Some of their children were born in Sorn, where I think Thomas lived on the censuses and some in Muirkirk. But, it appears their Thomas was bon in Sorn and Thomas gives his place of birth as Stoneouse. This may blow my census theory out of the water but he does have the same occupation.


As far as I can tell. George Hamilton and Ann Prentice only had two children. Jean born 1795 and Thomas in 1797 but online trees seem to show this Thomas is not the one I am looking for.

I now believe that Thomas Hamilton's parents are George Hamilton and Ann or Anna Forbes. All of their children were born in Stonehouse and I am currently looking at one family tree that  links this path to Hamiltons I already have in my tree. However, this is not my main line of Hamiltons. Using this information, it looks like Thomas Hamilton, married to Agnes Browning is the great grandson of James Hamilton born 2nd March 1707 Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire and Janet Findlay - already in my tree. This James Hamilton, according to this tree owner,  is the grandson of James Hamilton the 1st Duke of Hamilton but I have no evidence of that. I need to work through the other public trees to see if these facts are consistent.

So, now, I think I am going to work on this a bit to see if I can completely verify it.

[Forfarian]

That looks like an excellent plan.

However, don't lose sight of the fact that a significant proportion of baptisms in the early 19th century, and even more the further back you go, are missing from the surviving records.

And never, ever trust any online tree unless there are original documents to prove it.

[Genie24]

Yes, that is what I am hoping to do. Find the documentary evidence to back it all up.

Thanks to everyone who has given feedback on this. It is very much appreciated as always. You're the best!