Hard Nut to Crack

[ciderdrinker]

Good morning
I have a James Smith watch maker born 1837 St Ives Huntingdonshire , in Wolverhampton and his 'wife' Sarah Moore  born 1844 Birmingham.
I've finally bitten the bullet and bought a marriage certificate for 1911 .
It tells me that his father is William Smith carpenter and Army pensioner deceased which as James is 73 is hardly surprising.
James is also a widower which may explain why they didn't get married before.
The 1911 census tells me James was also in the Army for 10years and is a pensioner. He  now can't write his name as he could in January when he got married.

Trouble is Smith is not a great name to find and James's first marriage could be anywhere.And there seems to be no Army record for either him or his father.

The censuses have James and Sarah in Wolverhampton 1881-1911 .
Before that possible entries 1841 and 1851 at St Ives
1851 Back st .St Ives
Elizabeth Smith widow 36 laundress St Ives
James 15 ag lab
John 13 ag lab
Ann 10
Joseph 4
George 10mths

1841 gives his father as William age 35 labourer and an extra son William 12.
But  a carpenter isn't a labourer and would a sg lab really become a clock maker ?

I'm not sure and there seems to be no parish records on line for St Ives.
So can anyone find James's first marriage ,his army records and his parents?


Fingers crossed

Ciderdrinker

[Willow 4873]

Possible in the 1861

J Smith aged 28 (crossed through might be 25) b St Ives Army General Hospital Fort Pitt Chatham
 
Piece 447 Folio 117 Page 7

Willow x

[Milliepede]

1841 gives his father as William age 35 labourer and an extra son William 12.

Assuming that was his father he could have been doing a temporary labouring job at census time to earn more money perhaps

[LizzieL]

Some people "big up" their father's occupation on marriage certificate, particularly the groom might if the bride's father has a higher status occupation. I have an Ag lab becoming a farmer, and one father being described as a gentleman when he wasn't. Much easier to do later in life when the father is deceased and no-one present would have known him.

[Willow 4873]

William doesnt appear on the 1851 census and Elizabeth is listed as a widow. On the 1861 she is listed as unmarried with Joseph living as a housekeeper but I cant find any death for William that would fit.

I wonder if he joined the army and was killed (it would be after 1847 if he is the father of Joseph) and when James filled in the details for the marriage certificate he sort of 'guessed' what the profession was

Willow x

[LizzieL]

Maybe James was illegitimate and William is a made up father.
I have one illegitimate man in my tree who was baptised with his mother's maiden surname as was usual. When he married he used that surname, but gave the forename of his stepfather together with his mother's maiden surname as his father and the stepfather's occupation. I spent many hours searching for someone with this hybrid name.

[rosie99]

This looks like the family you have in 1851

SMITH, JOHN  EASTON     mmn RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1838  M Quarter in ST IVES UNION  Volume 14  Page 189
 
SMITH, ANN       mmn RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in SAINT IVES UNION  Volume 14  Page 203

SMITH, JOSEPH       mmn RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1845  D Quarter in ST IVES UNION  Volume 14  Page 201

SMITH, JOSEPH       mmn RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1846  D Quarter in ST IVES UNION  Volume 14  Page 215

SMITH, GEORGE       mmn RICHARDSON 
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in ST IVES  Volume 14  Page 241
 

[rosie99]

William Smith married Elizabeth Richardson at St Ives in 1829

[Willow 4873]

I had the same as well Lizzie