Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s

[softly softly]

It's the very small incidentals that make me believe he is the same man. Madge saying " you won't find him he's a Spiers " and as I said before the telling to his children about "actors and the stage". Have you shared with your mother the findings made so far and if so what are her thoughts on your efforts.

SS

[BobB1]

SS, I also find the small incidentals make it appear him being the right man. But it's still not a confirmation in itself, which is what I'm now trying to establish to remove doubt. This is why I think trying to fill the gaps, which in themselves are an important part of the story, might be very helpful.

My Mother is appreciative and very interested, but she can't add much to what I tell her as its mostly all new to her. She was a very young child at the time. Neither can I overload her with verbal information as she forgets too easily, so I'm busy collating it into a written report she can read at leisure.

Yet occasionally some obscure snippet drops into conversation that she never mentioned before or couldn't connect to anything specifically. 

This family history research is both fascinating and frustrating in equal measure.

Bob

[Jool]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing the lovely photo of Madge, it's good to put a face to a name.

You mentioned a few weeks ago that you bumped into your mother's sister, I wonder if it's possible to have another chat with her.  As we have found, the smallest snippet of information can lead to another avenue of research.  Often people remember small things which they don't feel are important enough to mention, but can sometimes come out in a casual chat.

I believe we have found the right man, but from your recent posts I can now see why you feel circumstantial evidence is not enough.  We'll keep plodding on 

[BobB1]

You mentioned a few weeks ago that you bumped into your mother's sister, I wonder if it's possible to have another chat with her.  As we have found, the smallest snippet of information can lead to another avenue of research.  Often people remember small things which they don't feel are important enough to mention, but can sometimes come out in a casual chat.

Hi Jool

No, I don't think Betty has anything to offer. She is 4 years younger than my Mother and is even less aware of her Father, or where they were in those early years.

She only added the part of Madge being in London as Hotel worker based on a memory of an argument with Madge about jobs and work - seems Madge never talked about her past and the siblings were not curious enough to ask. What I do know is that Eric spent years trying to find his father, but was on the wrong track because until Madge's claim that 'he was a Spiers' he never found anything out. All present at the time simply thought it was just an unconnected Alzheimer's outburst. 

N.B. Another potential line of enquiry is the prison record of the Albert Spiers in 1926 ish. Where did he serve his sentence? I don't know where to look for this record any further than I've already tried. If it exists it should contain much detail about him.

I appreciate the support

Bob

[mazi]

I can only add that I think it very likely that your dining car attendant was a member of the N U R,
Warwick university’s records for the national union of railwaymen are available to search on find my past, for years between 1925-1928, it is possible he was a member in 1928.

If these have already been consulted i apologise for bringing this up again.

Mike
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t3e/

[Jool]

I can only add that I think it very likely that your dining car attendant was a member of the N U R,
Warwick university’s records for the national union of railwaymen are available to search on find my past, for years between 1925-1928, it is possible he was a member in 1928.

If these have already been consulted i apologise for bringing this up again.

Mike
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t3e/

I have been looking at the records Mike suggested but had no luck finding him under any of his names. There are Dining Car Attendants listed so I entered that as a keyword with no name in case his name had been mistranscribed, I also tried the same with the keyword Waiter.  Maybe this time span is too early for his railway employment.

[BobB1]

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t3e/
[/quote]

I have been looking at the records Mike suggested but had no luck finding him under any of his names. There are Dining Car Attendants listed so I entered that as a keyword with no name in case his name had been mistranscribed, I also tried the same with the keyword Waiter.  Maybe this time span is too early for his railway employment.
[/quote]

I think you're correct, Jool. If we assume the correct man and he was in prison around Aug 1926 for 6 months and didn't move to London until 27/28 then probably, though not definitely, he wasn't technically employed as a waiter then? Are there no union records after 1928?

Alf consistently uses ‘Dining car attendant or Waiter’ as occupation – I’m advised this is possibly listed under Auxiliary Staff - part of Railway Hotel Staff.
Likely rail company is LNER or LMS – if really a dining car attendant, although its not impossible he worked Flying Scotsman, but more likely its the LMS Royal Scot.

I noticed also that on his death certificate, his occupation is 'Engineers Labourer (Waiter)'. Given what we know of his character, had he just been overstating his employment perhaps? Or was that the doctor's or hospital staff's uninformed assessment? Maybe Madge - who was present at his death - gave that (more honest?) information? 

My Mother and her siblings were never given the impression that he was anything but a dining car waiter. He regularly came home with food from the dining car after a night or two away. What ever capacity in which he was employed, there must be a record of him.

Bob

[MollyC]

The occupation on the death certificate reflects the closure of the dining cars at the beginning of the war, mentioned previously.  He probably had to take whatever job he could find, an engineer's labourer, but (waiter) indicates his proper occupation.  It also probably explains why he left Dalby Street for cheaper accommodation, and any spare money would be sent to Madge.

Very frustrating that the records end in 1928.  It is worth enquiring of the archive about the circumstances and source they came from, and any details which may suggest what happened to the subsequent records.

[MollyC]

Another thought - Alf/Albert may have been redeployed within the railway company.  At the same time they were closing the dining cars they would have been loosing staff who either volunteered at outbreak of war, or were mobilised with the Territorial Army.