Author Topic: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?  (Read 300 times)

Offline JakeWorces

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 07:34 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I'm trying to work out a bit of a family mystery regarding my late grandfather, James Hyslop.

James Hyslop was born in Belfast in 1945.
His mother Mary Jane Hyslop, was born in Belfast in 1920.

Upon getting hold of my grandfather & grandmother's marriage certificate, I noticed that it said he was 'James Hyslop, formerly James White'. That's odd I thought, why would he have at one point had a different name?

But, that explained why I couldn't find his birth certificate. When I ran a search for a James White born on his birthday, bingo, found it. His birth was registered as 'James White', and indeed on the certificate his mother has been listed as Mary Jane White, formerly Hyslop. There is no father on the birth certificate, and his mother's occupation and address have been added to her information box too (which I understand to be unusual?).

I've searched marriage records, there is no marriage record of anyone called Mary Jane Hyslop or Mary Jane White in Belfast between 1936-1945 (i.e. between her 16th birthday and the birth of her baby, nor at any time from what I can see in searches in fact. This implies she hadn't come about this name change through marriage before (or after for that matter) the birth.

Does anyone with knowledge of the customs at the time have any hypothesis as to what is going on here? A few that I have:
  • James's father was indeed a Mr White, who got Mary Jane pregnant but then refused to marry her/acknowledge the baby. Mary Jane got a bit unhinged and decided to just assume his name and pretend they were indeed married and gave 'White' to both her and her baby.
    But would that be allowed? Would she not have to present a marriage certificate or bring her husband to the registration? Or would the registrar simply have put down whatever she said? Also, why would James then have reverted back to his mother's maiden name at some point later in life if so?
  • Mary Jane had indeed got married to and pregnant by a Mr White, but he died before the baby was born, it's simply that they got married outside outside of Northern Ireland hence I can't find the marriage record.
    I think this is unlikely as my understanding is that he would still be listed on the birth certificate with a note to say 'deceased', so seeing as the father is blank this rules this out? Also again I assume James wouldn't have taken his mother's maiden name later in life if this was the case.

Similarly, would there be any record of them registering a name change anywhere? And a way to search for this? I'd be good to know when James (and perhaps also Mary Jane) dropped the White name and reverted back to using Hyslop.

Thanks in advance,
Jake


Offline Jon_ni

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 11 April 24 16:47 BST (UK) »
No proof was required a verbal statement. Proceedures date back to 1864 (based on 1837 in England) when many were illiterate and people didn't retain certs. Apart from Registry Office marriages the Registrar did not have access to the most recent marriage details to check facts as the books were in use in the churches and only deposited with him when full.

A person can change their name if they desire, eg use a step-fathers or adopted father.
https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll

There is no White-Hyslop marriage in England or Scotland either.
For an unmarried couple (ie Mary Jane says Mr White is the father but she is not married to him) the Registrar would leave the boxes blank, unless the father was present alongside her and jointly signed the birth entry.

Mr White could have been local or eg USA army stationed in Belfast who promised to marry and reneged. For a brief period she used the White surname but he never returned and James never having known his father disliked having the surname on his birth cert so reverted to his mother's. But the White formerly Hyslop might also be explained by separation of her mother Ellen from her father James and being raised by a Mr White (divorce was rare 1920-40).

Perhaps find the deaths/burials/death notices of Mary Jane's parents https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01202/1500328.pdf to elimate some things.
You have the address on the birth can also look at the street directories and see who was there https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ but the address was her parents house and not hers.

As James & Ellen Hyslop were R.C. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09725/5528903.pdf and do not appear on the Belfast Council website they are likely interred in Milltown Cemetery with their death notices in the Irish News also not online, but deaths are viewable for £2.50 on GRONI to 1974.

Offline Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,257
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 11 April 24 22:26 BST (UK) »
Need to check baptism.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Online brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,061
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 11 April 24 22:58 BST (UK) »
Have you considered that it's Jane who could have been adopted or taken on her step fathers surname rather than being divorced

Maybe she wasn't sure which name to use for her child registration

Do you have her parents name
Did her mother remarry ?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Online Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,092
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 11 April 24 23:20 BST (UK) »
Nothing on the certificate suggests that a Mr WHITE is James' father.  The child is not assigned a surname on the certificate and Mary Jane is simply stating the name she was known by when she registered the birth.

Debra  :)

Offline Jon_ni

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 12 April 24 05:05 BST (UK) »
a snip of the box on the cert was posted on https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=881843

Online brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,061
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 12 April 24 07:05 BST (UK) »
So she was born HYSLOP +father James  her mothers maiden name Quinn

Mary Jane  was listed as a housekeeper on James birth so the father could have been at same household have you found her on 1939 register

WHITE could be a totally invented surname or a clue to birth father .

DNA 🧬 may be the only way to find out
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,257
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: No father on birth certificate, but different surname?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 12 April 24 07:19 BST (UK) »


Mary Jane  was listed as a housekeeper on James birth so the father could have been at same household have you found her on 1939 register


Not available online for six counties.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area