John Mays/Mayes/Maze in Magheragall and surrounding help please

[Bants2468]

Hi
I’ve hit a bit of a brick wall trying to find the correct details for John Mayes (Mays) born roughly 1840 and died in 1913 in Trummery, County Antrim. He married Isabella Graham 1861 in Drumbo and they had 10 children (3 daughters, 7 sons) of which one Alexander Stevenson Mayes (Maze) born in 1869 is my great grandfather.

There’s been a couple of threads about this Mayes/Maze family before which were really helpful to me in finding out the details of two of my great grandfather’s brothers who had emigrated to Australia, but I don’t know if the posters on these original threads are still active here. Would be great if they are as they may have relevant information which could help here!

Other threads for info:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=560638.msg5931042#msg5931042
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=558006.0
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=558655.0

I can’t find any details to confirm when and where John Mayes (my grandfather’s father) was born and who his parents were (finding his parent’s parents would also be a bonus!).

Some members of my family have suggested that John Mayes was born in St Monance, Fife, Scotland but died in Ireland and that his father John died along with his uncle Alexander Mayes in a fishing boat tragedy in St Monance in Scotland leaving wives and several children each in 1885, but I’m not convinced this is true.

There is also a possibility of a connection to the Huguenots who settled in Ireland as the surname ‘Maies or Mayes’ appears in a list of names of Huguenots in Lisburn but I can’t confirm as I can’t trace beyond John Mayes.

I’ve checked the GRONI records online this week and my great grandfather and some of his brothers and sisters were noted as Maze on their birth records. And the marriage record for John and Isabella notes his surname as Mays. However, my great grandfather Alexander S, his son Richard A. W, and my mum are all Mayes.

I’ve checked the 1901 Census which shows some of the family living with John and Isabella at 9 Drumsill, Magheragall and revealed an older brother Richard Mayes age 64 living with them (unmarried and occupation is retired farmer)

The 1911 Census shows them at 28 Trummery, Magheramesk with the addition of grandchildren but without Richard.

Any help in finding the accurate details for my John Mayes would be really great or any pointers to where else I should be looking would be appreciated!

[wb54]

Hi Bants2468,
                        Had a quick look at the marriage of John & Isabella 1861,
                        Listed as father was John, farmer.   “ surname MAYS ‘
                        Also I used MAYES & MAZE.

                          Isabella was the main search , did a search on deaths for John
                          There is a death of John Mayes late of Trummery, Co-Antrim.
                            20 May 1913.  Proni will search.
                           Granted to Alexander S. Mayes & The Reverend Samuel Mayes Clark.

                           Can’t find any information on the John listed as father.
                           Could the farm been handed down as some time?
                            Try searching for death notices in the local newspapers, they might
                            help you.
                             Best regards,    Billy.

[Kiltaglassan]

Welcome to RootsChat, Bants2468 

Some links-

There is a death of John Mayes late of Trummery, Co-Antrim.
20 May 1913.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05338/4486348.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/magheramesk/maheramesk/trummery/

Proni will search.
Granted to Alexander S. Mayes & The Reverend Samuel Mayes Clark.

Full Abstract :
Probate of the Will of John Mayes late of Trummery County Antrim Farmer who died 20 May 1913 granted at Belfast to Alexander S.Mayes N.S. Teacher and The Reverend Samuel Mayes Clerk.
Date of Grant :   14 November 1913
Effects :    £1,010 17s. 2d.

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx

[Jon_ni]

Trummery is right on the Antrim Down county border per the Townlands link.
The 1901 census (Drumsill, Magheragall) and the 1911 both say he was born Co. Antrim, his wife was born Co. Down and all his children were born Co. Antrim.

He married Lisburn District in Drumbo Presbyterian, Co. Down (likely his wife's church) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09613/5486254.pdf
He was aged 20 and a Farmer and his Father was a Farmer

His residence at marriage was Island Kelly otherwise Stoneyford Civil Parish of Derriaghy https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/derriaghy/island-folly/island-kelly/

His father John (Farmer, widower) died Island Kelly 1875 aged 78 and John junior registered the death
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01t4g/ though no relationship is stated.
An Annie Mayes aged 70 died Lisburn District 1868 but the image is pay to view on GRONI.

Whilst C of I registers for Blaris, Lisburn exist going back to the 1600's I don't think there are any 1800-1860 Presbyterian ones if check PRONI's Guide to Church Records. It is difficult to guess quite where he might have been baptised.
When there is an absence of local records there is a tendency on online trees to consider (or just link) to names and ancestors further afield.
John Mays senior may have married c.1825 in the C of I, as Presbyterian marriages were only legally recognised from 1845 onwards, but if it were located it won't list his father's name. Due to the Penal-laws his baptism will be undocumented if Presbyterian. Breaking into the 1700's is unfortunately only accomplished by a minority.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/ANT/Derryaghy
http://lisburn.com/churches.html

John and Isabella at 9 Drumsill, Magheragall / 28 Trummery 1911

the 9 and 28 are just the reference code the enumerator used on his various forms - householders A, building B1 & B2 & summary N. They are not a house number or part of their 'address' and can be disregarded. The house number where there is one in towns appears on the 1911 additional page - the reverse of the householders form.

[wb54]

Hi everyone,
                       Great information which should help Bants2468  along.
                       Googled Stoneyford, just to see where it was, noticed
                       St John’s Church then remembered about the Proni will.

                       The Reverend Samuel Mayes Clark, searched for him found
                        some stuff. Then came across  nifh .org Derriaghy Parish
                        Church Baptisms 1827==1917.

                        Anne Jane. Mays.  Born 7 January 1871,  Baptism 26 February 1871.
                         John Mays and Isabella.

                       William. Maze.      Born 8 September 1862,  Baptism 28 September 1862.
                         John Maze and Isabella.
                        I think they are family members.
                         Best regards,     Billy.

[Kiltaglassan]

The Reverend Samuel Mayes Clark, searched for him found
                        some stuff.

He was the Reverend Samuel Mayes, Clerk (of Holy Orders).

[Kiltaglassan]

Anne Jane. Mays.  Born 7 January 1871...

Ann Jane MAZE born 17 January 1871 at Island Kelly townland, Derriaghy civil parish.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03314/2214839.pdf

[Bants2468]

Amazing! Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to look things up and comment - there's lots here for me to go away and investigate especially the John that died 1875 Island Kelly as well as the Annie Mayes who died 1868.

From The Belfast Newsletter dated July 24th 1908 I've found a notice of a John Mays who died the previous day at Upper Frank Street and references his interment at the City Cemetry but that date doesn't match the 1875 Island Kelly one mentioned above or my great-great-grandfather John who died in 1913.

Through a long Google search I found a book in the National Library of Ireland in Dublin called 'The Irish Mays : a family history by Michael Kinchin Smith' self-published by the author in the 90s. One of the librarians there is amazing and is ordering the book in for me so she can take a look at the contents and see if it contains any of the people I've mentioned here. Which is great as I'm based in the south of England and would otherwise have to fly over just to read a book in the library  (which I might end up doing if it's in any way helpful)

Thanks again and all your help very much appreciated!

[Jon_ni]

Could the farm been handed down as some time?
Try searching for death notices in the local newspapers, they might help you.

John Maze senior was leasing a House and 13 acres of land off the Marquis of Hertford (specifically map location 14) on Griffiths Valuation printed 30 Apr 1862 Island Kelly, Derryaghy, Massereene Upper, Lisburn Poor Law Union, Co. Antrim.
The map with farm 14 labelled can be viewed on AskaboutIreland.
Subsequent changes of Occupier can be tracked using the Valuation Revision Books on PRONI (also now on Ancestry) to c.1930.

Death Notices became more common post WW1, a report of the 1913 might appear in the Lisburn papers rather than the daily Belfast ones. There could be earlier gossip, locals often sued each other in the local courts or were prosecuted for minor offences.
British Newspaper Archive / Findmypast have:
Lisburn Herald, and Antrim and Down Advertiser 1891-1896. Lisburn Standard 1878, 1884-1959.