John Knyffe 1469!

[emjsw]

Hi,
I am trying to find out about a man called John Knyf (Knyffe).
He was a cousin of Thomas Pymme of High Wycombe (& is mentioned in Thomas' 1505 will as deceased). John left Thomas property in Cripplegate without which Thomas left to his son.

I can find no mention of a John Knyf anywhere other than in the Court of Hustings where his will was proved 1469/70. I am not sure if it is the same John as neither Pymme or Cripplegate are mentioned.

In John's will he mentions the below properties:
"le Seven Sterres," within the Bar of West Smythfeld, and also his hostel called "Ie Ramme" in the parish of S. Sepulchre.

Does anyone know if there is a registry of old pubs please as perhaps I can find out more about him there.

I have searched for John Knyf (and various other spellings) and can't seem to find any records for him (I did find a Thomas Knyffe but don't know if they are connected.

Best wishes Emma.

[emjsw]

Sorry here is the Court of Hustings link https://www.british-history.ac.uk/court-husting-wills/vol2/p566

Here is the Thomas Knyff link to the Surrey Archives (re directed from the National Archives). It concerns land in Islington (where incidentally Thomas Pymme lived) https://www.surreyarchives.org.uk/collections/ other names mentioned include Sir John Shaa, Thomas Frowyk, serjeant at law, Edward Cheseman, Richard Clowdysley, John Olyff and Sir John Bourghchyer [Bourchier]

[Ashtone]

FindMyPast have this brief record with image (courtesy of the SoG):

Boyd's Inhabitants Of London & Family Units 1200-1946

Year: 1460
Name: John Knyf
Profession: Citiren (?) and Corser
Wife: Matilda
Children: Thomas

[emjsw]

FindMyPast have this brief record with image (courtesy of the SoG):

Boyd's Inhabitants Of London & Family Units 1200-1946

Year: 1460
Name: John Knyf
Profession: Citiren (?) and Corser
Wife: Matilda
Children: Thomas

Hi,
Thank you very much, this is really helpful , I appreciate your help.
Best wishes Emma

[jimbo50]

Is Smythfield or were the hostelries outside of the wall at Cripplegate ?
i.e St Giles Church...
The church was situated outside the wall at the Cripplegate, hence its name of "St Giles' without Cripplegate".
Isn't it possible that they could then be the same places/properties.

[Vance Mead]

Here are some more references to John Knyf and Thomas.

1446 John Knyf citizen and 'corsour' of London, in Close Rolls.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/hen6/vol4/pp431-436

1448 and 1452 John Knyf or Knyffe, "corsour", surety
https://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/239804116?GET&FILE=[WWW_LMA]simple_search.htm

1458 John Knyfe, plaintiff in Common Pleas. This doesn't give any more information, but it was in London.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/788

Letter Books of London, 1470, Matilda Knif, widow, and Thomas, son of John Knyf, late "corser". Thomas was under-age.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-letter-books/voll/pp83-91

1492 Knyff, Thomas, of Iseldon (Islington), gentleman, a defendant for debt in Common Pleas.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no919/CP40no919Act.htm

1508 the executors of Knyff, Thomas, of Iseldon, Middx, gentleman, (Darset, William, of London, gent; Bayly, Richard, of St John Strete, Middx, yeoman), defendants in Common Pleas.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40no983

Since Thomas Knyff was described as a gentleman, he could be in other records, such as Heralds' Visitations. There are some records of a Knyff family in Upton-cum-Chalvey, Bucks. This is about 10 miles from High Wycombe, so that could be a connection.

Footnote 5
https://archive.org/details/historyantiquiti_03lips/page/n261/mode/2up?view=theater

1420 Knyf, Thomas, of Upton, Bucks, gent
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/636

Boulstrode of Upton, has Margaret the daughter of Thomas Knyffe
https://archive.org/details/fourvisitationso5657ryla/page/78/mode/2up?view=theater

[emjsw]

Is Smythfield or were the hostelries outside of the wall at Cripplegate ?
i.e St Giles Church...
The church was situated outside the wall at the Cripplegate, hence its name of "St Giles' without Cripplegate".
Isn't it possible that they could then be the same places/properties.

Hi,
Thanks for getting back to me. It is quite possible, I will have to get a map out to check but the building willed to Thomas Pymme was at St Giles without Cripplegate and the properties mentioned in the Court of Hustings were three messuages near the "le Seven Sterres," within the Bar of West Smithfield, and a hostel called "le Ramme" in the parish of Saint Sepulchre. I am not sure how close all of these areas are but it could be that they are talking of the same places.
Best wishes, Emma

[emjsw]

Here are some more references to John Knyf and Thomas.

1446 John Knyf citizen and 'corsour' of London, in Close Rolls.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/hen6/vol4/pp431-436

1448 and 1452 John Knyf or Knyffe, "corsour", surety
https://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/239804116?GET&FILE=[WWW_LMA]simple_search.htm

1458 John Knyfe, plaintiff in Common Pleas. This doesn't give any more information, but it was in London.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/788

Letter Books of London, 1470, Matilda Knif, widow, and Thomas, son of John Knyf, late "corser". Thomas was under-age.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-letter-books/voll/pp83-91

1492 Knyff, Thomas, of Iseldon (Islington), gentleman, a defendant for debt in Common Pleas.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no919/CP40no919Act.htm

1508 the executors of Knyff, Thomas, of Iseldon, Middx, gentleman, (Darset, William, of London, gent; Bayly, Richard, of St John Strete, Middx, yeoman), defendants in Common Pleas.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40no983

Since Thomas Knyff was described as a gentleman, he could be in other records, such as Heralds' Visitations. There are some records of a Knyff family in Upton-cum-Chalvey, Bucks. This is about 10 miles from High Wycombe, so that could be a connection.

Footnote 5
https://archive.org/details/historyantiquiti_03lips/page/n261/mode/2up?view=theater

1420 Knyf, Thomas, of Upton, Bucks, gent
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/636

Boulstrode of Upton, has Margaret the daughter of Thomas Knyffe
https://archive.org/details/fourvisitationso5657ryla/page/78/mode/2up?view=theater

Hi,
Thank you so much for the links and new avenues to explore above, I really appreciate your help and am looking forward to going through them in more detail this evening.

Until now I had just had mention of a Knyffe/Knyf family in 2 wills and now I can try to piece together some more information to work out why Thomas Pymme calls a Knyf his cousin:

Thomas Pymme 1505 Chepping (High) Wycombe (Buckinghamshire Archives DAWe 1-203)
'I will that my son Thomas Pymme shall, immediately after my decease have the lands and tenements returned, the revisions and services that I have in the parish of St Aegidius (St Giles) outside Cripplegate, London, in the suburbs  of the same which were formerly of John Knyffe, London, to be held and held for him and the heirs of the body by their own right'.

Thomas Pymme 1549/50 Isolden (Islington) Middlesex (National Archives PROB 11-33-54).
'First I will and bequeath my tenement I now dwell in in Iseldon with [?] acres and a half of land which were some time my cousin Knyfys'.

Another mention of a Knyff (but I am not sure if they are linked) is in Stow where he discusses the late dissolved priory of St Bartholomew's and it's burials:
'Alice, wife to Balstred, daughter of Kniffe' [no year given]*
This seems to fit with the Bulstrode family in the visitation link.

Thanks again and best wishes Emma

*pg 320 A survey of London written in the year 1598 by John Stow with an Introduction by Antonia Fraser. Sutton Publishing 2005.

[horselydown86]

Thomas Pymme 1549/50 Isolden (Islington) Middlesex (National Archives PROB 11-33-54).
'First I will and bequeath my tenement I now dwell in in Iseldon with [?] acres and a half of land which were some time my cousin Knyfys'.

Regarding the ?, it is vij = seven.