George Williams marriage to Miss Carpenter

[Martin17]

 I have George Williams born about 1852 at Woolaston. His wife on the census from 1891 through to 1911 is recorded as being Mary Williams, born Woolaston, about 1851.

I have them with five children born between 1881 and 1890, one in Liverpool, the other four in Canning Town, London. All children recorded have the mothers maiden name as Carpenter. On one of the children's birth certificates it records the mother as Matilda ( not Mary ) formerly Carpenter.

I have looked everywhere for the marriage, trying all different names and spellings, but to date I am unable to find the marriage, although 1911 census, states married 21 years, which would make it about 1890. This could be a misprint. All children have been born by then. I suppose there is a possibility they may not have even married.

I would be grateful for any information if there was a marriage, or even no marriage at all.

Regards

Martin

[Dundee]

Marriage in Canning Town in 1890.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZN9-7DF

George's address is the same as the 1891 census and he is a widower at marriage.  Mary's residence is Wales but the 1891/1901/1911 says she was born in Woolaston.  There is a Mary POWELL of the right age in Woolaston with a father Thomas.

I guess that the mother of the children died and Mary POWELL is his second wife.  Son George was born in 1889 and the only age appropriate death that I can see in West Ham is this one...

WILLIAMS, MARTHA  MATILDA
Age 36 
GRO Reference: 1890  M Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 78

George didn't muck about if that is her but I suppose a young family needs a mother.  I wonder if she was related in some way.

Debra 

[Dundee]

That death is her.

Birth

WILLIAMS, FREDERICK  JAMES
Mother's maiden surname: CARPENTER     
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 87

Baptism

Name   Frederick James WILLIAMS
Father's Name   George WILLIAMS
Mother's Name   Martha Matilda WILLIAMS
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   15 Feb 1886
Event Place   Barking Road, Essex, England

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XK8P-TJP

Debra 

[Martin17]

Hi Debra

Thank you for your reply and information. That would explain a lot of things. I was unaware that George had been a widower for his second marriage, which I was unaware of. The Martha Matilda would tie in with some information I already had. I could still not find a marriage for George to Martha Carpenter, do you think it could have been her second marriage when she married  George ?

Thank you once again.

Kind regards

Martin

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Hi Debra

Thank you for your reply and information. That would explain a lot of things. I was unaware that George had been a widower for his second marriage, which I was unaware of. The Martha Matilda would tie in with some information I already had. I could still not find a marriage for George to Martha Carpenter, do you think it could have been her second marriage when she married  George ?

Thank you once again.

Kind regards

Martin

No, she's a spinster. Daughter of Thomas Powell (dec)

Just to note there's a Martha Matilda Carpenter baptised in Chilmark, Wiltshire in 1854. Isn;t yours - she's at home with Mother in 1891, having been a servant in Battersea in 1881 Might be worth a second look, as the one on 1891 is at home with Mum and Dad in Wiltshire in 1881 as well. Parents of both are James and Elizabeth

[Mabel Bagshawe]

so it is the Chilmark Martha Matilda. Her brother George marries in Lambeth in 1886. George Williams is a witness

George Carpenter and his bride give their address as Wyvil St

in 1881, who is in Wyvil St but George Williams, stationary engine driver b Woolestone c1852 and wife Sarah b c1848 Abersychan

Maybe he and Martha Matilda couldn't marry?

[Dundee]

No, she's a spinster. Daughter of Thomas Powell (dec)

Martin was asking if Martha Matilda may have been previously married, not Mary.

Debra 

[amondg]

Just in case
Frances Williams born 23 October 1882 bap. 23 February 1883 daughter of George Williams  and Matilda at St. Athanasius, Kirkdale Lancashire.
Father Engine Driver
Abode 6 North Dingle
Ref Lancashire Parish Clerks online.

Elizabeth  born 3 March 1884 bap 1 June 1884 daughter of George and Matilda,
Barking Road Canning Town

Frederick James 1886  - already quoted see previous replies

Bessie  born 23 April 1887  bap. 20 May 1888 daughter of George and Matilda
Barking Road, Canning Town.

George Henry born  14 October 1889  bap 23 June 1890  of George and "Mary"
Barking Road, Canning Town.
As George was baptised at 8 months old and George the father was already with Mary this could be a clerical error as his birth on GRO Index mother's maiden name Carpenter, so he is the son of Matilda nee Carpenter. 

 

[Martin17]

Thank you to all of you that took the time to read my enquiry and post your replies.

With these replies I went back to come forward and think I have finally resolved my enquiry. Mabel, I believe you could be right that George and Martha Matilda could not marry, even though she was the mother of their five children.

Once again, a big thank you to you all.

Kind regards

Martin