Author Topic: Banns advice from 1824  (Read 185 times)

Offline Chris Nilsen

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Banns advice from 1824
« on: Thursday 25 April 24 12:04 BST (UK) »
Hello,
I was hoping someone has good knowledge of banns reading requirements and could answer a question for me about some banns from 1824.

I have found a reading of banns from St. Chad, Saddleworth on 30/5, 6/6 & 13/6 of 1824.
For the marriage of John Garlick & Martha Ashton, both of Austerlands in this Parochial Chapelry.
Trouble is I cannot find a corresponding marriage for this couple, which I am guessing should be late June 1824.
Is it possible they never married even though banns were read?

The curious things is though that we find two years later a marriage of John Garlick to Martha Ashton on 24th July 1826 at Manchester Cathedral. John was of the parish of Glossop and Martha of the parish and town of Manchester.

I'm guessing a bann reading was not still legal two years later.
Is this the same couple or a different couple with the same names?

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris.

Offline Pinetree

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 April 24 12:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Chris,

I am definitely no expert on banns but I do have a very similar situation in my tree see

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=317573.msg2008295#msg2008295

In my case definitely the same couple.

Besides the delay, as the banns have to be read in the church where the marriage takes place I don’t think the earlier banns would be valid in any case.

Pinetree



Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:00 BST (UK) »
My understanding is that they are only valid for three months from complete reading. I have several odd cases in my tree.

1. banns were fully read in one parish where both resided, then read again starting almost immediately in another parish a long way away (again both said to be resident there), followed by marriage in the second parish. The groom was a soldier and it looked like he was posted suddenly while the first set where being read. The bride may have been the daughter of another soldier, but not sure.
2. Banns read in 1830s, but no marriage until 1860s. On censuses between these dates, couple lived together producing three children. He said he was married, she said she was his single "housekeeper". So I suspect someone objected to the original banns because they knew he was already married.
3 Banns read twice about 18 months apart in two different parishes, couple married straight after 2nd set. I think bride was under age when first set read, didn't do any further research as they turned out not to be related just a co-incidence of names.

If you don't find a second set of Banns or a licence corresponding to the actual marriage, it is possible that the vicar was ignorant of the fact that Banns had a "use by" date
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline amondg

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:10 BST (UK) »
Banns were read in each parish so if anyone had any objections they could come forward.

How old was Martha Ashton? her parents may have objected if she were under age. Same goes for the groom.

The marriage you mention was by license (1826) so no banns were read on that occasion.
Since he was of Glossop Derbyshire and she was of Manchester Lancashire, they were able to obtain a license to marry. 

ADDED
I noticed he was a widower 1826, so when did his first wife die?


Offline LizzieL

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:11 BST (UK) »
Image of 1826 marriage record on Ancestry - it was by licence
And John was a widower - maybe he wasn't actually free to marry the first time banns were read
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Chris Nilsen

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:21 BST (UK) »
His first wife was Betty nee Lee and she died in 1823 and buried on 10th Aug at Glossop. She was 25 years old.

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:25 BST (UK) »
So he was already widowed in 1824. And would Martha be over 21 in 1824?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Chris Nilsen

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:28 BST (UK) »
The Martha Ashton who married John in 1826 was born in 1799 in Hadfield, Derbyshire.
The family appear in 1851 living Woolley Bridge near Hadfield.

Offline amondg

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Re: Banns advice from 1824
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 25 April 24 13:47 BST (UK) »
Who is the John Garlick who married Mary Cooper 31 May 1819 in Glossop

They had
Joseph bap 30 April 1821
Mary bap. 24 August 1823

The other children with John and Martha 1841 William 1835 Tom 1837  and John 1833 are of John and Martha .

Or is this a coincidence?