William Penn and Sarah Penn

[SharonTurnbull]

Trying to find out about William Penn born 25 Aug 1880 • 101, Mansfield Street, Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Parents were William Robert Penn and Julia Mary Penn (Cross)
And Sarah Penn (Thomas) born in Cardiff about 1894
He married  Sarah Thomas in South Africa in 1907 and they had two daughters Maud Penn and Florence Penn who were placed in a children's home in South Africa and grew up never knowing what happened to their biological parents Both the parents were deported back to the UK William was deported from South Africa 23rd July 1926 on the Armadale Castle and Sarah was deported on the 10th January 1930 on the EdinburghCastle. The last correspondence that we have was in 1928 he was living with his brother Frank Penn at 287 Brettenham Road Walthamstow Essex. I have done a extensive search on ancestry but cannot find out what happened to both of them after they returned to the UK.
Any help you could offer would be appreciated

Sharon

[CaroleW]

Welcome to Rootschat

Can you confirm Sarah Thomas’s  birthyear. Suspect you may mean 1884 as she would only have been 13 - in 1907 although I see she is shown as 36 on the 1930 incoming passenger record

Why were they deported & the children left behind?  Why the 4yr gap between the 2 deportations?

Florence was b 1909 & Maud 1911 per Ancestry tree

[CaroleW]

The 1926 incoming passenger record for William shows his occupation as Sailor & his address as Tower Rd St Leonards on Sea Sussex which was his parents address

Sarah’s passenger record shows her as a dressmaker aged 36 and address 50 Queen St Cardiff

[SharonTurnbull]

The file that I got from the archives in South Africa states that Sarah was born in Jan 1894 so yes she was young when her and William were married. They were both arrested for a number of criminal acts and were supposed to be deported at the same time but Sarah escaped and went on the run and hiding away from the authorities. she used a number of different aliases while on the run but was finally located and then deported. William wanted his 2 daughters to go back to England with him but the court ruled that they would be better off staying in South Africa. I was able to track Williams family from the address of his parents which was Tower Road but they both just seem to have vanished after coming back to the uk

[bevj]

Found this, for info:

Another woman deportee was Cardiff-born Sarah 'Sally' Penn. She had come to South Africa as a child and while still in her mid-teens married an Englishman, William Penn.39 They had three children, of whom one died in infancy. Around 1920 they were in Cape Town and, by Sally's account, William was 'carrying on' with a 'Mrs. Van Vrede. According to Sally, she took at a job as a waitress at the Central Hotel in the Royal Navy base port of Simonstown and gave her two small daughters Florence and Maude into the care of a Mrs Horner in Cape Town. Horner was then reported to the authorities for neglecting the children, and on the order of the chief magistrate of Cape Town they were placed in the All Saints Home. Sally showed up in Durban in 1922, where she later got two suspended sentences for housebreaking before going to jail for the same offence in 1924. In 1925 she was in Pietermaritzburg, where she appears to have been involved in prostitution and further petty thefts. By this time William was in jail, and in 1926 Malan decided on his deportation. However, William demanded that his 'family' be deported with him. Despite the understandable objections of the sister superior at All Saints, who felt that the girls were doing well in the home, and despite the advice of his officials against William's proposal, Malan agreed. One can only speculate that his actions were based on a patriarchal Calvinist faith in the sanctity of the family. A search was instituted for Sally, who was found in the Transvaal town of Middelburg. She was taken to Pretoria to accompany William and the girls on the ship. But there she told her landlady that she did not want to go to Britain and disappeared. Malan continued to insist that the daughters should join their father but, probably fortunately for them, this did not happen. Around the time of her disappearance Sally apparently had been taken up by an Italian pimp called Leni. In 1928 a Cape Town detective reported that the pair 'keep company with other local crooks and loafers. They move around from town to town and when not in gaol are begging in the street. She is now a very low type of woman'.40 After a further conviction, she was deported on the Edinburgh Castle in 1930.

https://scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0259-01902014000100008

Bev

[MollyC]

Would someone please check an exact date of birth in the 1939 register?  Using the index only, there are only two individuals named William Penn with a birth date in 1880, one in Staffordshire and one in Hendon, Mdx.  At the Hendon address there is also a Rosa Penn, born 1879.

A William Penn & Rosa Johnson were married June quarter 1933, Bethnal G. 1c 242
so aged about 53-54.  A possible second marriage.

Possible death registration for William aged 61, Hackney 1b 327 DecQ 1942
(while the Staffs. one apparently died 1947, registered at Stoke)

[CaroleW]

Sorry - Rootschat does not allow lookups for details from the 1939 register that are only available via subscription.  Full birthdates are in that category

I can tell you that neither is a match for your William's full birthdate but the Middlesex one is similar

The 1933 marriage is online & that William was 24yrs old when he married Rose Johnson

[MollyC]

I asked for a check, not a look-up.  Thank you for checking, it suggests our William may have left the country again.