Author Topic: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?  (Read 1656 times)

Offline Elastik

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Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« on: Saturday 21 September 24 01:25 BST (UK) »
I just received my Uncle Frank's WW2 records from the MoD Team at the National Archives. There are 36 pages & a lot of detail, even dentistry records. Sadly I can only understand about 30% of it since I am not familiar with the abbreviations & acronyms used. He appeared to be in the Royal West Kent Regiment. Family members say that he was evacuated from Dunkirk but the dates don't look right to me & also that he served as a batman for an officer who was shot, in an attack, in front of him. I can't really get anywhere with these questions. There seems to be no mentions of duty as a batman but maybe this was not an "official" Army role. I'd appreciate some advice on the status of batmen & common abbreviation & terms eg. "posted". What does "posted" mean? I'm happy to post the images providing I can meet the file size requirements. Thanks for any help.

Online Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 September 24 07:45 BST (UK) »
No, official records won't usually record appointments like batman because they were internal to the regiment he was serving in. As for the abbreviations and terminology you don't understand, please feel free to  post images of any entries which are giving you trouble and we will attempt to tanslate. 'Posted'  in the case of an Infantry soldier means transferred to a job/appointment outside his normal unit. So for instance he would have been initially posted somewhere to undergo his recruit training, and later might have posted to a centre for demobilisation.

Online Jebber

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 September 24 09:55 BST (UK) »
A Batman would care for his Commissioned Officer’s uniform etc mucin the same way as a Valet would for his employer in civilian life..  He would run his errands and do the jobs that an ordinary serviceman would have to do for himself. In Other words he was a general dogsbody.  If you Google Batman you should find plenty of information.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline Elastik

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 September 24 17:32 BST (UK) »
Thanks, I'll abandon the search for his work as a batman. On the attached sheet (13 of 36) there is a stamp which says "Evacuated From France", The date on the left is 24th June & on the right looks like 7th June. Both of these are too late for Dunkirk but it has been suggested it might have been Operation Aerial. How does this sound? It looks like he was next at the Isle of Wight where he was granted leave, maybe this is where the boat first docked.

On the line dated 11/10/40 it looks like it says "Posted to 8/RWK and struck off strength." Anyone know what "struck off strength" means?

2 lines bellow this it looks like he was sent to Maidstone and somewhere that looks like "Brasted". Is this an army camp?

On the line dated 4/3/41 just below it seems to say he was "Granted add pay 3d per diem as "something" cook". Any idea what the "something" is?

In terms of initials -
On the line dated 30/4/40 "RASC" - RASC?
On the line dated 13/3/41 "Granted WPP....." -WPP?
On the line dated 10/4/41 "Ceased to be attached to ITC Maidstone" -ITC?

I think I've bitten off more than I can chew here. Thanks for any assistance.


Online Jebber

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 September 24 18:30 BST (UK) »
He was with the 1 Battalion Royal West Kent’s, posted means he was sent to another Battalion or Unit, in fact he went to the 8 Battalion Royal West  Kents
 Struck off strength means he was no longer counted as in the old unit he would now be included in the new unit.
RASC  is the Royal Army Service Corps.

I believe the ITC was the Intelligence Corps.

Men were moved around as and where they were needed. As your man trained as a cook he was most likely to have ended up attached to various units during hi service.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Online BushInn1746

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 September 24 18:48 BST (UK) »
I.T.C. Infantry Training Centre
 ----------
Brasted, Kent.

A website claims Brasted to be the base of 8 Royal West Kent Regiment in 1940. (However, their War Diary has not been seen and information is unconfirmed).

Online Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 September 24 19:26 BST (UK) »
As promised, here is my explanation of the entries in his service record.

The entry for 7 Jun 1940 seems to be the date he actually arrived back in the UK, so is consistent with him being evacuated on 6th June, technically the last day of Operation Dynamo (the evacuation of Dunkirk). As far as I am aware the RWK left France via Dunkirk, although they lost about 200 men who were either killed or taken prisoner.

Once back in Britain the battalion was assigned to home defence duties on the South Coast, and your man would have spent most of the rest of 1940 getting bored, until October when he was posted to the 8th Battalion RWK. This was a Home Defence Battalion of the Territorial Army and was largely made up of older soldiers who were perhaps past their prime when it came to fighting overseas, as well as the young recruits who could not yet be sent overseas. This was a posting because he permanently left his original unit (1 RWK) and went to join the 8th Battalion. The terminology used is that he was struck off the strength (SOS) of 1 RWK and taken on the strength (TOS) of 8 RWK.

Then within 4 months he was on attachment to the Infantry Training Centre Maidstone. 'Attached' means that he remained on the strength of  8 RWK even though he was employed somewhere else temporarily. There is something of a mystery about this attachment. The RWK's home depot was at Invicta Barracks in Maidstone and this was also the home of No 13 Infantry Training Centre, so that is quite logical. However, the mention of Brasted does not fit with this. Brasted is in North West Kent close to RAF Biggin Hill, and as far as I am aware there was never an ITC there. What I think this means is that the 8th Battalion was at Brasted (as BushInn mentions), and the ITC where he was attached was at Maidstone. Anyway, at least we know why he was there. He was learning to be a cook. The word before Cook is Learner. He then returns  to 8 RWK and later qualifies as a Class 2 (Class II) cook.

Then in October 1941 he is transferred yet again, this time to 294 Company Pioneer Corps at Chattenden Barracks in North Kent. The Pioneers had been formed during WW1 but were disbanded in 1919, only to be reformed as the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps (AMPC) in 1939. In 1940 they were renamed the Pioneer Corps, and much later on became the Royal Pioneer Corps. They provided largely unskilled labour who assisted in particular the Royal Engineers, Royal Artillery and Royal Army Ordnance Corps. Chattenden Barracks was also home to both the Royal Engineers and a large Ordnance Depot storing munitions. Given that you man had qualified as Class II cook, that is probably how he was employed in 294 Company.

The last entry on the page, which has been cancelled, indicates that he was granted leave from 29.11.41 to 5.12 [41]. The location seems to be Milford Haven, but given that the entry was cancelled, it may have been entered in error on the wrong record sheet.

I hope this clarifies things a bit



Online Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 22 September 24 10:44 BST (UK) »
Two follow up points.

You originally asked about Batmen. Although not an official appointment, the employment of batmen was authorised but the soldier concerned had to be willing to do the job. The officer concerned would be responsible for paying the batman for his extra duties at the going rate within the unit (a batman would not get rich on this!).

Secondly, you asked what the abbreviation WPP stood for. I don't know but I suspect it was something to do with qualifying for a War Pension.

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 22 September 24 11:00 BST (UK) »

Secondly, you asked what the abbreviation WPP stood for. I don't know but I suspect it was something to do with qualifying for a War Pension.

I don't know either, but there's an alternate suggestion here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=526056.0

Boo