Author Topic: DNA mystery.  (Read 969 times)

Offline John Scott 1959

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DNA mystery.
« on: Sunday 20 October 24 05:36 BST (UK) »
My wives DNA from her father's side has me a bit bamboozled. Her surname is of German origin, and I can trace her family on her father's side back to migrants to Queensland in the mid 1850s through her 3rd GG and his family.

My wife has 12 DNA matches that also track to the 3 times GG but none from 4th onwards. What is puzzling me is that she has no German DNA at all on her paternal side. Was the 3 x GG's father, not his biological father? But then surely the 3xGG mother is of German origin.

Am I missing something obvious? 
 

Offline John Scott 1959

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 20 October 24 05:37 BST (UK) »
My wives DNA from her father's side has me a bit bamboozled. Her surname is of German origin, and I can trace her family on her father's side back to migrants to Queensland in the mid 1850s through her 3rd GG and his family.

My wife has 12 DNA matches that also track to the 3 times GG but none from 4th onwards. What is puzzling me is that she has no German DNA at all on her paternal side. Was the 3 x GG's father, not his biological father? But then surely the 3 x GG mother is of German origin.

Am I missing something obvious?

Offline rsel

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 October 24 06:31 BST (UK) »
Hi,
    There are two main parts to my response, and i will start with the simpler one first which is on you wives 'German DNA'.  Basically the 'Ancestry ethnicity estimates' really should not be taken to seriously, if you look at the post on the recent changes to them, a lot of people don't think much of the break downs they give. Despite what ancestry say they are not an exact science, but instead are just a view of how the DNA compare to reference panels of other testers.
    On the second part, the no matches to 4th GGP, are you basing this on the thrulines/common ancestors or you own research into the matches ?  Based on the DNA inheritance process, it is quite possible that you wife is just unlucky not to have inherited much DNA from that individual set of relatives, which means you wont see any matches as they are below the accepted thresholds. However it is also possible that nobody who is descend from them (other than on your wife's 3 GGP lines) has tested, There is real no simple way to tell. The best you can do is to make sure you investigate as many of the shared matches of those 12 matches you have identified, and try and work out how they are related.

Richard
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Online Biggles50

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 20 October 24 10:56 BST (UK) »
It is very possible that no “German DNA” has been inherited as Richard writes.

I keep posting this chart as it visually shows how DNA can be inherited.

Do note that each DNA tester will have their own, unique version of this chart.



Offline Ruskie

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 20 October 24 11:05 BST (UK) »
If you tested with Ancestry, upload your raw data to MyHeritage. They sometimes throw up more European matches.

Offline DianaCanada

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 20 October 24 21:49 BST (UK) »
Biggles, thanks for posting the chart, I haven’t seen it before.  Really helps to put it in perspective.

Offline John Scott 1959

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 20 October 24 22:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated and very interesting. It seems to not be an exact science. My wife does show 17% German DNA from her mother's side that comes from her GG mother. It is interesting that her German father's DNA could have not been inherited only one generation further back.
I have obviously been thinking about this and as my father-in-law is still alive, 92 years old, I might get him to take a DNA test. 

Online Biggles50

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 20 October 24 22:55 BST (UK) »
Getting F in L to test would be good.

His DNA Matches should be about two times the cM as your Wife’s so that may elevate some of her lower cM matches into the 20cM plus results where Shared Matches become visible.

Do remember that Ancestry’s “gene pools” that they use are still going to be restrictive and for German ethnicities they may well be based upon a German enclave in the USA.

Watch this and I suggest you start to Group your DNA Matches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQwRIyhuns



Offline Albufera32

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Re: DNA mystery.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 21 October 24 00:32 BST (UK) »
The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing as "German" DNA, any more than there is English, Scottish or Irish DNA. All there is, is DNA which is more or less prevalent today in people with Scottish, Irish, German or English descent.

The second thing is to consider what Ancestry actually does - which may not be quite what the marketing blurb sometimes suggests.

What Ancestry does, is form reference panels of, in their words "people with deep family roots in a specific geographic area or cultural group". What that means is they use people whose families can be shown to have lived in a particular region for several generations. So their German reference panel (which at 2000 members is the same size as the Scottish and Irish reference panels) consists of people who have established roots living in Germany for several generations.

They then analyse the DNA of the people in the reference panel, measure the percentages of people who have each of 1001 separate segments, and use these percentages to decide on the "origin" of any particular segment.

Let us call one of these segments the "Abba" segment. It turns out the Abba segment is quite common in the Scottish reference group - about 40% say. It is also quite common in Germany (let's say 38%) and Norway (62%), but as I'm sure you've guessed already, I'm going to make this particular segment most common in Sweden (75%, say). (Just in case it's isn't obvious, I'm making these numbers up, I have no idea what typical ranges they get.) The point is, now that they have have measured the percentage abundance of the said segment, the "Abba segment is now categorised as "Swedish".

Now they analyse my DNA. It turns out I have the said Abba segment, so Ancestry now allocates 1 of my 1001 segments as Swedish.This does not mean I must have gained that segment from a long lost Swedish ancestor - it just means I have a particular segment of DNA which is more common NOW in people whose families lived in Sweden for several generations in the past than in any of their other reference groups.

Should Ancestry find 10 such "Swedish" segments, that is 10/1001, ie roughly 1% so it now classes me as 1% Swedish. BUT, because each of those MAY in fact be from Scottish ancestors given that, as with my earlier example of my entirely fictitious Abba segment, those segments may also be relatively common here in Scotland, they put an error range of between 0 and 1% on my Swedish ancestry.

Given that the UK has during it's history been invaded by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings from various parts of Scandavia as well as Norman French, has provided refuge to many exiles from religious or other forms of prosecution, and has in turn fought over or invaded large parts of the globe, it is perhaps not surprising that we share a lot of those segments with many other groups.

What all that means is that what used to be called ethnicity estimates are just that - glorified guesses based on statistics and probability - which only indicate that you share DNA with people whose ancestors are from a particular region in the past. If you want the fuller picture look at the ranges on the given identified regions.

Most importantly, always remember that DNA is only one more piece of evidence that might link you to a given ancestor.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)