Penkhull - Brameld

[gaz2195]

Hi everyone,

I'm writing this message in the hope that it fills a hole in my family research, as so far, I'm drawing a blank with one of my ancestors.

I have a direct relative on my mother's side called Henry Brameld (though his surname has been mis-spelt as Brammer, Bramall, Bramah, Bramald, etc). In 1841 he was living in Rawmarsh, South Yorkshire as a young apprenctice shoemaker and continued to live there for the rest of his life. His marriage, death and census records place his birth around 1822 or 1823.

One thing that is consistent throughout the census records, is that his birthplace is given as Penkhull, Staffordshire (again, with some spelling differences). I cannot however, find a birth record for him. His marriage certificate gives his father's name as Thomas, a cordwainer, but no mother's name given.

Through my research I believe that his father (and potentially one of his brothers), were born in Rawmarsh, Rotherham and then moved to Staffordshire, which is why Henry returned to the Rotherham area after his birth. Also through that research, I found that some of his family were appearing on non-conformist records, which may be a reason why I am struggling to find Henry's birth.

For that time period of 1822/23, no records seem to come up for Penkhull itself, so I'm guessing the records of births there would appear elsewhere, somewhere nearby maybe?

One record I found of note that I think is linked, is a 1841 census record for a John and Sarah Bramall living in Hanley, Stoke on Trent. I believe John may be the brother of Thomas, Henry's father, based on his birth year and the fact that his wife Sarah was born very close to Rawmarsh, Rotherham.

If I can find Henry's birth, I may also be able to find his mother's name and potentially siblings that may have stayed in Staffordshire or also moved back to South Yorkshire.

Any help with records / information would be greatly appreciated. All I have access to at the moment, is what is on the major family tree sites.

[CaroleW]

You won't find a birth record as Civil Registration only started from 1.7.1837.  Prior to 1837 you are dependant on baptismal records.

Mothers names never appear on marriage certs in England or Wales - they do in Scotland

[ShaunJ]

There's a baptism in Rotherham in 1823 for a Henry Bramah son of Thomas, a cordwainer, and Hannah.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FENGLYOR1D_PR-87-2-6%2F00308&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FBAP%2F304333032

[gaz2195]

I've seen that record and the father's name and occupation fit what I'd be looking for.

It's the consistent stating of Penkhull / Stoke / Staffs on the census that was putting me off to start with.

On top of that, I think I found a census record for the Henry Bramah you've noted above, in Rotherham at the same time as my Henry was in Rawmarsh (might have been 1841, but I'd have to double check)

[gaz2195]

I've seen that record and the father's name and occupation fit what I'd be looking for.

It's the consistent stating of Penkhull / Stoke / Staffs on the census that was putting me off to start with.

On top of that, I think I found a census record for the Henry Bramah you've noted above, in Rotherham at the same time as my Henry was in Rawmarsh (might have been 1841, but I'd have to double check)

Yes, just checked......
I think Henry Bramah baptised in Rotherham was living on Bridgegate, Rotherham as an apprentice shoemaker in 1841. In 1851, he is living in Sheffield, still with the spelling 'Bramah'. I'm only going on the spelling of the name and the location being the one in the baptism to Thomas, rather than the one I'm looking for.

The one I believe is linked to me, in 1841 is living with Uncle & Aunt, Abraham and Mary in Rawmarsh, concidentally an apprentice shoemaker (through other research, I think I know who those two are). In 1851, he is still is Rawmarsh as the head of the house, but with 'Aunt' Mary living with him.

There is a third Henry Brameld born very close date wise in Wath Upon Dearne (close to Rawmarsh), but I've traced him away from the area with a different occupation

[ciderdrinker]

Good Afternoon.
If we go with the uncle Abraham he married mary Wilson at Rawmarsh 27.11.1807.
He appears from the census to be born c 1781 but that id the 1841 census so approx.

Baptism at Masborough Indepent Rotherham
Abraham Brammah 2 March 1779 s of John and Gertrude of Rawmarsh.
Siblings with a new wife Hannah Burrows married 10 June 1782 Rawmarsh at chapel
Hannah buried 28.5.1832 age 88 at St Mary Rawchurch
Issaac 15.9.1784 ,Jacob 30.3.1786 and Mathew 22.10.1787.

Marriage to Gertrude Wright 3.4.1775 Rawmarsh.Buried 3.3.1782 Rawmarsh

There looks to be a first wife Rebecca Armatage at Pontefract 27.11.1761 Buried 27.12.1774
Children George 16.8.1765 ,John 22.11.1767,Rebecca 8.7.1770 .and Thomas buried 6.10.1774  At Rawmarsh C of E

There is a suggestion your Thomas could be born 1774 with first wife from an online family tree and another child Mary 1778.However the Thomas in 1774 does die so perhaps one of the latter wives but it does look like the right family at Rawmarsh.

John was buried at Rawmash 13.7.1807 and is described as a shoemaker.

Sorry I haven't got more
Ciderdrinker

[gaz2195]

My own theory is that John (with 3 wives) had a son called George.

George had many children with two different wives, both named Mary (Crooks and Agney/Hackney). Two of his children were John and Thomas, both of which I think may have gone to Penkhull/Stoke.

There's definitely evidence of John in 1841 and birth/baptism records at Hanley in the non-conformist records. His wife also shows as being born in Newhill on the 1851 census (a couple of miles from Rawmarsh).

I can't seem to find much of Thomas at all in Staffordshire, I'm only going off Henry's named birthplace.

Abraham and Mary, whilst stated as aunt and uncle, are in the same generation as Henry's grandfather George

[ChrissieL]

I see from Freereg, that George and Mary Crooks had a number of children. George's occupation on every baptism record,  is given as a potter. Maybe that is the connection with Penkhull in the Stoke on Trent (The Potteries) area. 

I see on the 1841 census that John Brammeld living in Northwood, Stoke on Trent,  was NOT born in county

Chris

[Zen rabbit]

Further to your investigations. I live in Penkhull and have had a peruse through Richard Talbot's The Royal Manor of Penkhull. The trade directory of 1822 lists Thomas Brammer as a Boot/shoemaker living near the White Lion pub. Possible working for a Charles Brindley.