Mixed C of I Catholic wedding late 1800s?

[mackers]

Have a question about mixed marriages around the late 1800s. Concerning a marriage between a Church of Ireland and Catholic. The marriage took place in Belfast St Anne's Cathedral where it states under licence? In fact the two people concerned brother and and the others sister also got married in the same church. And neither couple changed their religion. Does anyone know just what the ins and outs of this meant legally? As it where?

[Wexflyer]

1870 and 1871 Marriage Acts define the legal position.
Before the 1870 Act, any marriage by a Catholic priest of a Protestant was legally null and void.

Text of 1870 Act
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1870/act/110/enacted/en/print.html

Text of 1871 Act
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1871/act/49/enacted/en/print.html

[Wexflyer]

Before the 1870 Act, any marriage by a Catholic priest of a Protestant was legally null and void.

Of course that didn't mean they didn't happen.

[Wexflyer]

where it states under licence?

This is simply the advance notification required for all Catholic marriages since 1864. Providing the details regarding the parties seen on what becomes the marriage registration.

[Sinann]

St.Anne’s is COI, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Anne%27s_Cathedral,_Belfast

I think by licence is when the couple buy a licence to marry quickly rather than having banns read.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Obtaining a licence was simply part of the normal procedure when marrying in church. You had 3 options:

Marrying after banns had been read in church 3 times
A licence
A special licence

Banns was the cheapest method but normally involved  a wait of several weeks so the banns could be read out each Sunday. Licence was quicker, but more expensive. It was useful if you were in a hurry eg if the bride was heavily pregnant, or if you wanted greater privacy. It was also favoured by the gentry so they didn’t have to stoop to having banns read. Special licences were rare. They were discretionary and used when there was something unusual about the marriage eg if someone wanted or needed to marry other than in a church eg if they were terminally ill in hospital, or in prison. I think also if neither party resided in the parish where the marriage was taking place.

[mackers]

1870 and 1871 Marriage Acts define the legal position.
Before the 1870 Act, any marriage by a Catholic priest of a Protestant was legally null and void.

Text of 1870 Act
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1870/act/110/enacted/en/print.html

Text of 1871 Act
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1871/act/49/enacted/en/print.html

Thanks the 71 act explains the situation.

[Jon_ni]

It was perfectly legal for a R.C and a Protestant to marry in the C of I, whereas as Wexflyer indicated it was illegal for R.C. priests to conduct a mixed marriage until 1870.
The pre-1870 position is clear in the Report of the Royal Commission on the Laws of Marriage, 1868.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Report_of_the_Royal_Commission_on_the_La/EcsUAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PR12

However the civil legalities of mixed-faith marriage in a R.C chapel differed from the theological & practical realities in terms of the R.C. Council of Trent and 1850 Synod of Thurles, plus Ne Temere (1907).
The Synod of Thurles stating that in the future a dispensation from the Holy See was needed for a mixed marriage to occur, that guarantees had to be given that the Catholic party could continue to practise the faith, and that the children would be brought up in the Catholic faith. In practice, though, the legislation was regularly ignored and it was customary for boys to be brought up in the faith of their fathers and girls in the faith of their mothers. [catholicbishops.ie Synods]
It was much simpler if they married at a Registrar's Office OR in the Church of Ireland and St Anne's married 500-600 couples a year 1890's-1910's.

[Jon_ni]

I think by licence is when the couple buy a licence to marry quickly rather than having banns read.

Banns was the cheapest method but normally involved  a wait of several weeks so the banns could be read out each Sunday. Licence was quicker, but more expensive....Special licences were rare

Licence was the norm in Ireland whereas Banns were the norm in England. The cost of a licence in Ireland was a fraction of what it was in England.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757062.msg6080163#msg6080163

"We are informed, however, that in Ireland, on account of the cheapness of licences, which are stated to cost not more than 5s., marriage by banns according to the rites of the Established Church is much less frequent (at all events in the province of Dublin) than marriage by licence."
Report of the Royal Commission on the Laws of Marriage, 1868 [bottom of page xi].

Presbyterian Licences were only 5s. [same 1868 England/Ireland/Scotland Royal Commission comparison & summary]
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hl4s20&seq=17&q1=%22cost+is+5s%22
next page "Almost all marriages among the Irish Presbyterians take place by licence, although more costly, and giving more trouble, than the publication of banns."
In England and Wales the cost of a common licence was £2 10s in a Register Office vs £4 8s in Church, mentioned in the preceeding English section (page vii) and detailed
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hl4s20&seq=74&q1=%22expenses+of+Marriage%22&start=1
with other English examples from 1854 snipped in the RootsChat thread.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757062.27

See also the final table of the above RootsChat that I posted from Eleventh Annual Report of the Registrar General (Ireland) 1874 with data for marriage modes 1845-1874 and compare to the English situation in the yellowed image above where over 80% were by Banns.

GRO Registrar General (Ireland) Reports
Ireland 1887: Of the 3,640 Marriages according to the rites of the late Established Church, 36 were by special licence, 3,014 by licence, 509 after the publication of banns, 5 on Registrar's certificate, and in 76 instances there was no information afforded as to which of the foregoing methods was adopted.

Ireland 1900 37th Report:
Of the 3,297 Marriages according to the rites of the Church of Ireland, 42 were by special licence, 2,860 by licence, 362 after the publication of banns, 7 on Registrar's certificate, and in 26 instances there was no information afforded as to which of these methods was adopted.

Marriages could only be solemnized in C of I or Presbyterian Churches until Autumn 1863 prior to the Marriage Law (Ireland) Amendment Act, 1863 [8th June], Methodist and many of the Presbyterian variations required the presence of a Registrar and a Marriage Licence and were recorded in the Registrar's books.
The Registration of Marriages (Ireland) Act, 1863 [28th July, effective 1 Jan 1864] brought about R.C. civil marriages but unlike the Protestant churches also involved the Registrar as the completed Certificate/form had to be returned to him afterwards for it to be recorded in the Sub-District R.C. ledger.

Special licences granted by the eg by the Bishop of Down/Archbishop of Armagh or the Presbyterian Moderators etc [list of them #37 of 1870 Act per Wexflyer] to marry at any convenient time at any place in Ireland, sometimes at home, cost ££ and involved the Registrar being recorded subsequent to the ceremony in his District Ledger.
Occasionally 2 entries can by found for these:

• the one by the Registrar in the local Registrar Office Book (the same book he used for couples that married in his office) but with an additional marginal registered by me on date (similar to R.C ones in that respect)
• and an entry by the presiding minister if the Rev. erroneously also recorded it in his Church pair of Marriage Ledgers on the day.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09758/5541744.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09758/5541650.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09690/5514636.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09690/5514628.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09232/5340657.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09232/5340699.pdf

From the ones I came across the Presbyterian Moderators seemed to grant more Special Licences then the C of I Bishops.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10955/8004516.pdf

Caroline Dawson married 28 Jun 1866 in Newry R.C and Newry Registrar's Office.[/list]