Coughlin Pier Danahy strange possible connection please help

[MurphyK91]

Hello,

My third great grandparents were Charles Coughlin and Mariah Pier. Charles was born/died circa 1833-1896, died in Buffalo, New York. Mariah was born/died circa 1835-1892 and also died in Buffalo. They were both from Ireland.

They lived in the first ward of Buffalo since at least 1850.

There are many baptisms through familysearch connecting to their children. I also stumbled upon a Timothy Coughlin and Bridget Pier/Danahy who had a number of children baptized at the same church between the 1850/60s.

I believe I have the correct couple in the 1860 census where they are referred to as Cuglin and have what appear to be possible siblings of Bridget's of a Danahy family, though transcribed badly.

I believe I found the proper couple as their children Ellen and Michael are living with them from 1865 on. I found Michael's baptism refers to his mother as a Pier whereas his sister's baptism refers to her as a Danahy.

There is nothing particular out of the ordinary when it comes to my second great granduncle Charles Augustus Coughlin's marriage, it refers to his mother as Mariah Pier, however his death record in 1946 was filled out by his daughter Agnes Perrell and she refers to his mother as Mariah Danahy!

I wonder if it is possible that Bridget and Mariah might be older half siblings of the Danahy men. Perhaps Mariah's granddaughter had a misunderstanding of the Danahy surname and didn't realize the exact relationship? These two names being mixed this way seems to be too specific to be coincidental, however it still could be. Bridget passed in 1925 so perhaps I can ask the county clerk to compare death records of these Danahy men and Bridget and hope the parents are listed and that no mistakes are made.. haha. Unfortunately Timothy appears to have passed before 1865 and neither Charles or Mariah's death records have parents names as they didn't list them at the time.

If anyone can think of anything that might help I'd be very grateful!

Kevin Murphy

[oldohiohome]

I wonder if it is possible that Bridget and Mariah might be older half siblings of the Danahy men. Perhaps Mariah's granddaughter had a misunderstanding of the Danahy surname and didn't realize the exact relationship? These two names being mixed this way seems to be too specific to be coincidental, however it still could be.

Do I have the families right:
Mariah Pier/Danahy (c 1835, Ireland - 1892, Buffalo, NY)
  + Charles Coughlin (c 1833, Ireland - 1896, Buffalo, NY)
           Ward 1, Buffalo by 1850
    - Charles Augustus Coughlin ( - 1946)
           marriage record says mother was "Pier"
           death record says mother was "Danahy". informant: his daughter Agnes Perrell
      + _
        - Agnes Coughlin
          + Mr Perrell
children's baptisms on familysearch


Bridget Pier/Danahy ( - 1925)
  + Timothy Coughlin ( - before 1865)
    - Ellen Coughlin
         baptism record says mother was "Danahy"
    - Michael Coughlin
         baptism record says mother was "Pier"
     
1860: in Buffalo as Cuglin with Danahy siblings
children also on familysearch, same church
children with them from 1865 onward

1860 Buffalo [indexed at ancestry as Cuglin, at familysearch as Couglin]

Timothy Coughlin, 30, born in Ireland
Bridget Coughlin, 26, born in Ireland
Daniel Coughlin, 4, born in NY
Ellen Coughlin, 2, born in NY
Timothy Dannihy, 14, born in Ireland
Dennis Dannihy, 16, born in Ireland
Michael Dannihy, 19, sailor, born in Ireland

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MC7Q-6F4?lang=en

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If it was only Charles Augustus Coughlin's marriage record vs. his death record, I'd say go with the marriage record, since he was alive to provide the information. The real mystery is the difference between the mother's maiden name on Ellen and Michael Coughlin's baptism records, since you'd think the mother, Bridget, would have provided the information both times.

Or maybe not. I haven't looked for those records yet - was Ellen baptized after 1860? If so, maybe one of the Donahys in the household provided the information. 

Could you post the names, and baptism years of the children, if you have a chance?

--------------
I quickly realized that finding other US records that said either Pier or Donahy was not going to solve the problem.

Do you have any clue what part of Ireland they were from? Even the county would narrow the search down.

Were either couple married in Ireland, do you know? Try looking for the marriage record in the Catholic parish registers. findmypast.ie will let you search the index for free, and I think ancestry has the records indexed also, maybe familysearch as well. The actual records are at https://registers.nli.ie/?locale=en, if you find them in an index. Not all registers for all years have survived.

If either couple's first child was born in Ireland try for that also.

Failing that, look for the baptisms for Mariah, Bridget, and the Donahy men under both names. Mother's maiden names are almost always on the Irish Catholic parish baptism records.


------------
The other problem is trying to find an Irish name that would sound like Pier in America. Have you seen the name spelled any other way?

Remember they were speaking to registrars who probably weren't Irish at a time when surname spelling wasn't standardized. The enumerator for Timothy Coughlin's census return was named Patrick Delany and he wrote down Mallens for Mullins, Horragan, Calahan, Couglin, and Dannehed. Imagine what the poor American registrars thought they heard and tried to write down.

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I tried https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/ for "Pier" and there weren't any at all listed in Griffith's Valuation, which is what he used as a basis for that particular database.


I Googled "Irish surname that sounds like Pier" and found https://www.duchas.ie/en/surnames?SearchText=p
so I entered just the letter "P" and came up with a few possibilities:

Paor → Paor · Power
Peircín → Perkins
Perri → Perry
Phayre → Fair · Mac Fhinn · Ó Finn · MacGing · McKing

I'd go with Paor anglicized as Power first, out of that bunch.

[MurphyK91]

I'm not suggesting that Mariah Pier is Mariah Danahy, but I suspect that Bridget Pier/Danahy and the Danahy men might be siblings/half siblings. I suspect Mariah Pier Coughlin's granddaughter might have mistaking her grandmother's maiden name for Danahy might indicate that Bridget was a sister, given that Bridget lived until 1925, whereas Mariah passed in 1892, her granddaughter wouldn't have known her at all, but perhaps she met Bridget throughout her childhood and knew her as her grandaunt? It is a strange coincidence with having these two names is it not?


All in Buffalo:
Timitheos Coughlan and Brigita Danahy baptize Mariah Coughlan 9 Mar 1854
Timitheo Coughlan and Brigita Danahy baptize Ellanam Coughlan 1 Apr 1858
Timitheo Coughlen and Bergitta Pier baptize Michael Coughlen 31 Oct 1863
Timitheo Coughlen and Bergitta Pier baptize Mary Coughlen 9 Jul 1865
Timetheo Coughlen and Bergitta Pier baptize Ellen Coughlen 3 May 1867

Based on shared DNA connections I suspect the Coughlins to come from Cork, possibly Schull, Cork. All children were born in Buffalo.

Thank you!

[heywood]

I can see that Mariah and Mary could be different names and therefore two different children, but there are also two Ellens.

Is this the family?

1865 has Bridget 28 yrs, Ellen 7 yrs and Michael 3 yrs.

1875 has Bridget, 35 yrs  Ellen 16 yrs, Michael, 13 yrs and Timothy Danahay, 26 yrs- brother.

[oldohiohome]

First - The name is Pier after all. Ignore all my suggestions in the previous post. But look for Pear, Peare, and Peir when you start searching. I saw all those variants in the Irish baptisms.
And yes, it is looking to me that Bridget was a half sibling of the Danahys and Maria was definitely related, maybe a sister or cousin.
-----
I don't know if you have these:
When Charles and Mariah Coughlin's daughter married 25 July 1923 to John Hamilton, she said her mother's maiden name was Mariah Pier.
       https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/collections/61378/records/904224502
Their son Benjamin's Social Security Application Index said his mother was Maria Pier.
       https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/collections/61378/records/904224502

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You mentioned the DNA link of the Coughlins to the Schull area of Co. Cork. At the findmypast index, I was running into a lot of baptisms in Schull West Parish, Cork and Ross Diocese for Pier.

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There is this man in Buffalo who might be worth looking into. I haven't yet.
1880 Buffalo Census
at 200 Miami Street
Richard Pier, 40, born in Ireland
Mary Pier, 35, born in Ireland
Daniel 11, John 5, Ellen 1, Margaret 3m, all born in NY
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/search/collections/6742/records/1585085

It might be a coincidence but his age and Bridget's match these baptisms exactly:

Schull West Parish, Cork and Ross Diocese

February 1, 1834, Bridget daughter of Richard Peare and Ellen Driscole, sponsors: Cor[nelius?] Collins and Susan Coghlan
January 31, 1840, Richard son of Richard Pier and Ellen Driscol, sponsors: Thomas Lowry and ? Reily

more in that family, most likely. same parish.
Betty, 1827, Richard and Ellen
Dan, 1830 Richard and Ellen
Ellen, 1832 Richard and Ellen
Pat, 1836, Dick and Ellen
Honora 1845, Richard and Ellen

But no Mariah.

There are these 3 children named Maria Pier, or variants, baptized in Schull West in 1835 +/- 2 years. I didn't widen the year +/- .
Mary Peare baptized 1834, parents Richard and Sally
Mary Peare baptized 1835, parents Andrew and Margaret
Mary Peare baptized 1835, parents Jerry and Mary

I haven't looked at the actual register.

this link will take you to the Schull West parish records.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0057?locale=en

-----
This has to be a coincidence, since "your" Timothy and Bridget were in Buffalo long before this, but I thought it was interesting, showing the occurrence of both names in the area.

Baptism, Schull West Parish
January 2, 1859
John, son of Timothy Coghlan and Bridget Peir
sponsors Michael Peir and Julia Perry
family from Thoin ? Froin/r ?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633997?locale=en#page/149/mode/1up

-----
The obituaries of both Matthew and Michael Danahy said they arrived in Buffalo in 1849. They ran a meat packing business, Danahy Packing. I imagine you have that by now. One of the earlier records gave "cattle" as one of their occupations, I don't remember which.

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The Danahys in 1850
Interesting household. Look and see if you think Bridget's age is 16 or 46, as it was transcribed. I say "16." All the other 4's on the page are open, not closed. The 1850 census does not include a column for relationship to the head. I've seen people listed out of age order before. And just because she is checked off in the
"people over 20 who cannot read or write" column it means nothing, since the enumerator also checked off Daniel, age 18, and John, age 15.

1850 Census Buffalo, Dennis Danahy [indexed as Danaha]
Dennis Danaha, 50, born in Ireland, no occupation,
Bridget Danaha, 16, born in Ireland
Matthew Danaha, 20, born in Ireland, laborer
Daniel Danaha, 18, born in Ireland, laborer
John Danaha, 15, born in Ireland
Ellen Danaha, 13, born in Ireland
Michael Danaha, 10, born in Ireland
Dennis Danaha, 6, born in Ireland
Zady Danaha, 2, born in Ireland

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCYC-49Y?lang=en

If that Bridget is 16, then I'd say there is a good chance she is the Bridget who married Timothy Couglin and Dennis is her stepfather. Maybe she was listed first  because she was the woman of the house.
If she is Dennis's stepdaughter then he too had a family before marrying Bridget's mother, since Matthew and Daniel are older than Bridget. Then both Bridget's parents died as well as the mother of some of Timothy's older children. In fact they could be intermingled right down the line, couldn't they? I'm having a bit of trouble picturing the sequence of events.

-----
Both that Richard Pier in Buffalo in 1880 and the Dennis Danahy household in 1850 have a daughter Ellen in it.  - Oh, I just noticed that Timothy and Bridget Coughlin wanted a girl named Ellen badly enough to reuse the name. I assume the first daughter, baptized 1858, died.

---
Just got a email message that someone else has posted, so some of this might duplicate that post. I'm going to save it as is.

[MurphyK91]

I can see that Mariah and Mary could be different names and therefore two different children, but there are also two Ellens.

Is this the family?

1865 has Bridget 28 yrs, Ellen 7 yrs and Michael 3 yrs.

1875 has Bridget, 35 yrs  Ellen 16 yrs, Michael, 13 yrs and Timothy Danahay, 26 yrs- brother.

Yes. That is them! Strangely enough my 3rd great grandparents had a daughter Mary Coughlin Findlay and Mariah Coughlin Lancer!

[heywood]

Great research oldohiohome.

[oldohiohome]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCYC-49Y?lang=en
Oh, I just noticed that Timothy and Bridget Coughlin wanted a girl named Ellen badly enough to reuse the name. I assume the first daughter, baptized 1858, died.

I assumed wrong, since the Ellen baptized in 1858 is the Ellen that Heywood found in 1865, age 7, and in 1875, age 16.

Great research oldohiohome.

Thank you, I have enjoyed every minute of it.

[MurphyK91]

Thank you for your help. It is interesting regarding the name Ellen. Charles and Mariah's first daughter was born in 1854, but died before 1855. They named another Ellen as well.

Here's all their children. All in Buffalo.

Ellen Coughlin 1854
Mary Coughlin Findlay 1855-1917
John Coughlin 1861-aft1922 bef 1935. There are so.many John Coughlins in Buffalo.. He was an Alderman of the first ward of Buffalo throughout the 1890s, but despite that I've found no death notice or any clues.
Mariah Coughlin Lancer 1863-1914
Ellen Coughlin Schaefer Delehanty Crockard Hamilton 1866-1935 widowed each time!
Twins
Daniel Coughlin 1869-1895
Charles Augustus Coughlin 1869-1946
William Joseph Coughlin 1872-1922 mine
Benjamin Andrew Coughlin 1876-1952

I think I'm going to take another trip to the familysearch library to get images of the baptisms so I can look over the sponsors. Perhaps requesting Bridget's death record could shed some light. Perhaps purchasing a copy of one of the Danahy men and comparing them would prove useful?

By the way that granddaughter who filled out the death record for Charles Augustus Coughlin was his daughter Agnes Coughlin  Perrell 1899-1974. So she wouldn't have known her grandmother at all. But, perhaps she might have known Bridget and those Denehy men. If she knew them, that could explain why she thought Mariah's maiden name was Danahy. My second great grandfather's death record was filled out by his son Charles Coughlin. He wrote it as Mariah Peer.

Thank you again for your help! I wonder if Bridget is in the 1855 census.