21 + VAT! I like it! Better than my half a century...
I have researched my line back through wedding certificates and census information to make sure I had the right parents each time - it wasn't easy because some people didn't know their Date Of Birth and guessed their age every census - so my line goes like this:
Me!
Matthew b 1916 m to Enid Kidd
Matthew b 1885 m to Mary Roberts
James b 1856 m to Elizabeth
Matthew b 1809 m to Elizabeth CretneyAnd as far as I can see your line goes:
You!
Lilian nee Moneypenny
William m Lilian
Richard b 1881
James b 1856 m Elizabeth
Matthew b 1809 m to Elizabeth CretneyHow does that look to you?
Matthew B 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney seem to have had 6 children and we are both descended from their son, James 1856. (Others are Sarah b 1835, Jane Ann b 1841, Eliza b 1845 and Ellen b 1848.)
James b 1856 and Elizabeth had at least 6 children and you are from Richard b 1881 and I am from Matthew b 1885. (Others are William b 1887, James 1891, David b 1893 and John b 1894. I don't have any of their children yet.)
I don't know why my Dad would call his cousin who was 13 years older, Uncle.
I wonder if his father Richard b 1881 was also known as Albert? It took me years to get to the bottom of this because I was looking for someone called Albert (!) much older than my Dad when in fact he was only 13 years older.
Now back to Matthew b 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney - they also had a son called William b 1832 m to Emma who had a son, Thomas b 1869.
Thomas married Elizabeth Ann and had 3 children Thomas 1896, Lily (Lilian?) b 1897 and William b 1900.
As far as I can work out so far, Thomas b 1896 had 5 children which follow BUT I haven't confirmed these with certificates at all and I'm still working on this line.
John, William, Margaret, James, and Elizabeth
These are the only Thomas's and Lilians I have come across so far except for the line you've given me so they obviously need more investigation. I have more Moneypennys from the Toxteth Park area on the 1911 Census which need clarifying too but I won't give you those yet because they're not worked on yet.
All in all, they all seem to come from Matthew b 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney. I have tried to many years to trace Matthew's family in N Ireland without success.
I've got loads of Moneypennys over there but no Matthews whatsoever. The records are scant but more are gradually becoming available and I'm also looking for connections with a man called Hiram Moneypenny that I keep bumping into!
Well, that's enough to be going on with! I hope it all makes sense! It's been a labour of love that never ends. I'm writing down the names you're giving me and trying to fit it all together. Maybe we can do it with dates of birth if you have any. If you want to send me a private message with your email address is, I could send you some of the census information and certificates I have.
I'll let you know if I come up with anything else that helps!
Lynne x