COMPLETED - Forest of Dean family

[Hackstaple]

I am looking for Thomas Southern who lived in the West Country in 1881 and earlier. He lived at various times in Colwall, Chepstow and the Forest of Dean, where he was a miner but a farm labourer on other occasions, probably on the Carter's Piece farms. That places him at English Bicknor in 1881.
He married a woman named Mary Ann [maiden name unknown] and had 4 children by her - William, Tom, Florence Harriet and Gertrude [who died young].
I need to establish Thomas's place of birth and what Mary Ann's maiden name was.
William had at least one son so he may be in your lineage and so then is Thomas.

[sandiep]

Hi,
do you have any dates at all for any of these it much easier!!!to search if you have a rough idea of ages of people
see what else you can put down and I will have another look
quite a few in 1871 more in 1891 and a few in 1901 of that name so might be lucky  sandie

[Hackstaple]

Sorry - I missed this reply Sandy.
Thomas Southern was born about 1845  and most probably in Herefordshire. The whole family appears in the 1881 census
at Bicknor St. English Bicknor]
Thomas 35 - said to be born at Colwell, Herefordshire [probably Colwall]
Mary Ann - wife - 30 - Abergavenny
William Albert 12
Tom age 7
Florence Harriet 4
Gertrude 2.
All of the children are shown as being born at Colwell.
I find no birth record for any of the children, anywhere.
By the 1891 census Mary Anne is  head of the family, living at West Dean, Gloucs. With her
William 21 b. Chepstow!
Tom 16 and Harriet age 13 - both born at English Bicknor.
I have not found a marriage record for Thomas and Mary Anne either.
Thomas should appear on the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses. The latter is incomplete and I have no way of accessing the first two nor would I know what place to find him in!!!
That's my pickle and that's my brick wall.
Best wishes
Victor

[sandiep]

BIRTH
SOUTHERN, Thomas June 1845 Ludlow  Herefordshire Shropshire Volume 18 Page 71

have you tried this one  sandie

[sandiep]

BIRTH
Southern, Gertrude March 1879 Monmouth (1837-1939) Gloucestershire Herefordshire Monmouthshire  Volume 11a Page 29

another possible  sandie

[Hackstaple]

Sandie
Great, thanks. I had already earmarked the entry for little Gertrude and had resolved to send away for her birth certificate this week but that entry for Thomas is new to me. The age seems to be about right as well. I am expecting a death certificate this week for a Thomas d.1890 b.1845. If I can link them and it is the right Thomas, wife's name on the death certificate, then I am through a brick wall.
Cheers!

[Hackstaple]

Sandie
From little Gertrude's birth certificate I solved two mysteries - her mother's maiden name, which was Davis, I had her before as simply Mary Ann- and next I found her birthplace to be Coldwell, which is in English Bicknor, Gloucestershire and not Colwall [which doesn't exist in the general area] or Colwell, Herefordshire. The confusion arose from the census man writing "Colwall, Herfordshire". Meanwhile the place was Coldwell, about a quarter-mile, I think, from where he was standing or sitting.
That was especially interesting as I have an antique print of Coldwell from 1830!
I mention all this as I know you have relatives from the same area.
I also received the birth certificate for Thomas Southern 1845. I wish this was the Thomas I am looking for but I am not sure. If it was him it would be easy to go back another generation or two as his mother's maiden name was Beniams [father Edward Southern] - but I will have to find more facts to claim this one.
Thanks for your help.

[sandiep]

Hi thats good news on the gertrude certificate perhaps you will find more now.
My certificate for Mary Elizabeth was a no go she died before Frances was born so its back to the drawing board for me.
let me know how you get on  sandie

[Hackstaple]

Back to Thomas Southern again. From his daughter Gertrude's birth cerificate I have found out his wife Mary Ann's maiden name - Mary Ann Davis born in Abergavenny. She claimed to be 30 in the 1881 census and 37 by the time of the1891 affair. The only resources I have are freeBMD and the BVRI. These give 3 possibles Mar 1849 Vol. 26 P49 - Jun 1849 26/59 - Mar 1852 11a/50 [all Monmouth]. I suspect Mary Ann Davis in Monmouthshire to be about as rare as mice in a  haystack. I cannot see that even buying all 3 birth certificates will help me one bit. I need to find her marriage to Thomas Southern and that would have been about 1867 or so.
Reverting back to Thomas, I have found what appears to be his death certificate in 1890 but the only likely birth certificate was in Bitterley, Staffordshire on 31 May 1845 and, bitterly I have to say that was £7 wasted. I doubt very much that this was the right Thomas Southern.
All indications lead me to suspect that Thomas was born in the Forest of Dean and perhaps in Coldwell, English Bicknor about 1841.
Does any kind person have the resources to check the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses for that district?
Alternately, can anyone find the marriage of Thomas to Mary Ann. Would that have been at Abergavenny [her home town] or had Mary Ann been working in the Forest area? The timing is poor to discover her as she would have been too young to work in 1861 and was almost certainly the wife of Thomas by 1871.
I am sorry this is a long request.