I'm sure this is a lost cause!!!! But.....

[MiKki of MnM]

I'm sure this is probably a lost cause,  but if anyone has any ideas on where to go next, I would gratefullly appreciate it.

I think i may have come to a deadend on one of my branches, unless anyone can give me an idea how to over come a missing fathers name on a birth certificate.

I am researching Ellen Annie Maria Hodges.  Apparently she was unsure of her full name!

When she died  on the 11th March 1943 known as Ellen Annie Maria Gore (Surname from 2nd Marriage) In Rainham Kent
When she gave birth to one of her daughters (Winifred Iris Baker) on the 31 Dec 1912 she was know as Annie Maria Baker formerly Hodges. In Bapchild Kent
When she married for the first time on the 11 July 1903 to Arthur Percy Baker she was known as Annie Maria Hodges (father's name left blank) in Chilham Kent
When she was born on 8th january 1883 as Ellen Annie, In Chislet Kent,  to her mother Margaret Neaves Hodges.  Fathers name left blank again.  As far as I know her mother was not marriad to anyone at this time, divorced or widowed, and again as far as I know she was born Margaret Neaves to Thomas and Fanny Neaves.  Although I do not have a certificate for this as yet. But they were recorded in the 1881 census, only a couple of years before Ellen's birth,  living in Sturry all together.

From this I can only assume Margaret has added the fathers surname to her own name on Ellen's birth certificate, probably to escape the embarrassment of a 'Bastard Baby'  I don't know.....

Please if anyone has any ideas on this,  I would hate for this to be the end of my search, in not such the distant past.

I wait in hope!

Michaela

[casalguidi]

Hi Michaela

I have found (assuming this is the correct family) Margaret N HODGES m Nathaniel C SMITH 1885

http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm

However, I doubt this will be of much use as there won't be anything appertaining to a previous husband or partner's name on the certificate.

In my own family, I have come across a lady marrying in the name of her former partner by whom she had had children but had not been married to.  On her marriage she was described as a spinster yet with the surname of her former partner rather than her maiden name

Have you checked for Ellen's baptism or her second marriage for any father's name?

Casalguidi

[Anjo]

Have just found Margaret on the 1901 with Husband Nathaniel charles FINCH  !!  (and Step daughter Annie Marie Hodges) Have looked again and I suppose it could be Smith but also looks like Finch.  On the contrare. The cert might just hold the key to her previous state of marriage. The actual parish record of the marriage might reveal more aswell. As to the parish record of Ellen Annie Marias chr,depending on the vicar, there could be a father named. Even only a reputed one. I have been going through parish records in staffs and in one parish the vicar had a father named for every illigit child even to the point of it being given to him by the mothers brother in law when she wouldn't name the father !!!  So its worth a look.
 Don't give up just yet till you have tried every avenue.  But in most cases you may  never really find out but there is still hope in your case.
Have you tried looking for Wills for your family? there might be nothing there but its always worth a go. Especially Nathaniels Will  if he left anything to his step daughter it might have explained as to who she was and born to... Worth a thought. One of my ancesters was adopted and I had no clues until I found the will of her adoptee who named her parents and away I went. Slightly different I know but just pointing out that there could be other clues out there.

Wish I could have been of more help and I wish you all the luck with your family

Angela.

[MiKki of MnM]

Hi Angela

Thank you very much for your help.  I will certainly look into everything you have mentioned.  Although I have not taken my research into wills before, and don't have a clue on how to go about it.  I am a bit of a novice to say the least!

I had found the 1901 census and thought myself the surname of Nathaniel looked like FINCH, and did wonder why the children did have a different surname, and started to think that maybe Margaret had a previous marriage to a Smith, although it does state that they are his children and not step children like Annie.  I did search for a Nathaniel Finch's birth, and the only one I could find was in Dudley Worcester.   But you will see a marriage has been found for a Margaret N HODGES m Nathaniel C SMITH 1885 by casalguidi.  So I will have to look into this name also now.

Thanks again for your help,  I'll let you know how I get on.

Michaela

[MiKki of MnM]

Hello casalguidi

Thank you for your help.  I will order this certificate as soon as I am able and will let you know of the outcome.

Thanks again

Michaela

[ferretheritage]

Hi

Do not despair! There are still some other things you can try. I think it would be worth your while to investigate the parish chest records to see what is available for Chislet . If they still survive, it would be worth while checking the following for any bastardy bonds, maintenance demands, or paternity inquests concerning Ellen Annie Maria andher mother made by the parish i.e records of the Overseers of the Poor, Churchwardens records, minutes of the parish vestry committee, JPs records and also Quarter Session records. In the case of any parish they were always very concerned that an illegitimate child born there would  become dependant on the parish financially: hence the quest to find the man responsible and make him take responsibility! I would  get in touch with the record office at Maidstone or Canterbury to see what there is. They now have an on-line catalogue if you go to the Centre for Kentish Stuides website. If you can't find anything relevant on it it would still be worth giving them a ring just in case the catalogue is not comprehensive.
Good luck and don't give up!

Celia

[ec]

Hi

I think the answer is her mother - Margaret born c.1862  She appears in 1871 and 1881 with 'parents Thomas Neaves and Fanny/Pheobe.  She appears, however, to have married as Margaret Neaves Hodges and there is a corresponding birth for her, again as Margaret Neaves Hodges in 1862.

Births Sep 1862
HODGES  Margaret Neaves     Blean  2a 569


I would therefore guess that she was Pheobe/Fanny's child by Thomas Neaves, but born before she married him.  I am guessing that Pheobe was Phoebe Hodges when she and Thomas married.

There is a widowed Phebe Hodges in 1861 with correcponding dates and places of birth to the one later shown as married to Thomas

Phoebe Hodges 1825  Bradbourne, Kent, Head Widow
Ann Hodges 1852  Herne Bay, Kent, Daughter 
Edwin Hodges 1854  Herne, Kent, Son 
John Coombs 1828  Herne, Kent, Lodger 
Thomas Fright 1803  Chislet, Kent, Lodger 

RG9/523 fol 49 page 14

Margaret then had Ellen Annie (while she was unmarried), and she got her mothers real name 'Hodges', which she used again when she married Nathaniel (who by the way is definitely SMITH on 1891 census)

Hope I have explained this OK - Margaret was never married to a Hodges - she WAS a Hodges.

As for Nathaniel Smith and Thomas Neaves - well I haven't been able to find either of these before they are married to their respective spouses - so thats another story

ec

[ec]

P.S.  Pheobes first daughter Ann (as shown 1861 below) appears to have been Annie Maria, which may explain why Margaret named her daughter with this combination

ec

[ec]

P.P.S.

On the site posted by Casalguidi

http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm

found marriages for Phoebe Hodges and Thomas Neaves both with ref

Year of Marriage: 1864
Entry Number: 333
Register: 21/1
Location: CANTERBURY AND SWALE


ec