Please can you help with my GREIG family ?!

[JEANP]

Hello Kate,

Just found this on the 1841 census at "Mains of Harvieston" Kinneff & Catterline:
All the Greig/Craigs were born Kincardineshire

David Craig? - 8
William Craig? - 7
David Grieg - 35 - Farmer
Elizabeth Greig -45
George Greig - 6
Isabella Greig - 10
James Greig - 4
Maria Greig - 11
Selina Greig - 8
Elizabeth Grieve - 13 - Farm Servant
Elizabeth Henry - 35 - Farm Servant
Jane Milne - 20 - Farm Servant

Jean

[JEANP]

Kate, I'm just looking at the 1851 census - have you seen the original? Don't you think it's a bit strange that Susan and the kids are described as Labourers wife, labourers son etc. Is James still alive?

Jean

[vhmsf1]

That's good advice, Mary Ann - I too have put a fair few people 'on the back burner' for awhile!    But I appreciate your sending that Irish luck of yours!  And... with Jean in here helping, my problematic Greig family (which was clear as mud last week), is slowly starting to surface!  I actually feel I'm getting a little more insight into this family! 

So, Jean, are you thinking that the folks on this 1851 'Harvieston' Census could be James's brother, perhaps?  That's certainly a possibility and I will go and work on that in a few moments. 

Now... I'm just thinking here *can you hear the wheels turning...*  Hehehehee... If this was a brother of James, then... James and family was not at Harvieston the night of the Census as they would have been recorded as being under David Greig's roof that night.  However, they appear on the 1851 Census as being in 'Herriestown' and Susan as 'Head of Household'.  So... Harvieston and Herriestown (Herrieston - seen these two spellings) must surely be different places/farms/whatever...  HOWEVER, this is a good lead! THANK YOU JEAN!

Now, James is recorded as being deceased in 1866 (young James's Marriage Certificate), sooooo... the question is, was he deceased at the time of the 1851 Census?  Orrrr... can the wording (yes, I DID wonder about that myownself!) 'labourers wife' be taken literally??  He's still alive but not residing with Susan anymore??  Perhaps he was off working somewhere and Susan preferred to have the kids settled in one place...  Perhaps the night of the Census he was on another farm, working and sleeping there through the week and coming home at weekends... In hard times you do what you have to do...

Well... more questions than answers here! BUT - some really good points, Jean!  I'm going to follow up this David and family, if I can! I've just run out of my monthly SP credits budget - NUTS!     But I'm SORELY tempted to blow it, this has got me so intrigued!     

Thanks to all the tips and places to search that I've found posted here in the last couple of weeks (MUCHO THANKS to all who have shared their genealogy search techniques and tips!!), I THINK there are one or two places I can try that MIGHT turn something up!

For the moment - Thanks Jean!  And thanks to Mary Ann for your continued  encouragement!

Kate.

[vhmsf1]

Hello Jean!

I found the whole David Greig family on the IGI - his wife was Elizabeth CRAIG!  Therefore, I'm assuming that the two children, David and William Craig would be siblings of hers!  It's amazing how similar the two names 'Greig' and 'Craig' are - and so it was a natural supposition to believe that the names might have been misspelled!  Just goes to show that you can't 'assume' ANYTHING in this 'research' business!

Anyway, I'm working on from there!

Kate.

[forthefamily]

Excellent job JEANP

Sorry I haven't been involved with the looking. I was off on my own little red herring. I'm working north from Liverpool and getting closer to the Scottish border Longtown is where I'm at now.

Kate. I agree - those names are too much alike.

You have to be open to what mistakes can happen. My Tate/Tait connection have been transcribed as Fate, Tail, Sale, Fail on Ancestry. Why didn't they make the census takers print 

Mary Ann

[JEANP]

It's me again.

The census for David Greig was the 1841 census not 1851, I still think it's the same place.

Jean

[forthefamily]

Kate, I'm just looking at the 1851 census - have you seen the original? Don't you think it's a bit strange that Susan and the kids are described as Labourers wife, labourers son etc. Is James still alive?

Jean

I was thinking about what you said. I have a family that has a merchant seaman as head of household. But, when he's away at sea and the wife is the HOH then she is described as "wife of merchant seaman".  I always though that was odd but I guess it was a way to explain his absense

Mary Ann

[JEANP]

Hi Mary Ann,

Yes, I too have women living with their offspring and named as head of household, in my case their menfolk have been working "away" either on another farm/quarry. But, they are noted as being married on the census, I don't know if this is the case for Kate, the transcription I have seen does not give this information.

Jean

[vhmsf1]

Hello ladies... It's been a hectic weekend thus not responding sooner.  I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Greig family though and I've managed to get a little digging and research in but I haven't been able to pin James Greig down yet. 

You may very well be right, Jean, regards 'Harriestown' and 'Harvieston' - they are very similar and so I have NOT AT ALL dismissed that possibility! I HAVE been checking the possibilities of 'Harriestown' being right too though (it never does any harm to check through all the possibilities)... and I HAVE found an entry for a John Milne, who came from 'Upper Harriestown', Kinneff, Kincardineshire.  Sooooo... this MAY be the name of a very small croft that doesn't even warrant a mark on the Ordinance Survery map...  Gosh, I just don't know...

Yes, I got caught up in your second post re: 

"Kate, I'm just looking at the 1851 census - have you seen the original? Don't you think it's a bit strange that Susan and the kids are described as Labourers wife, labourers son etc. Is James still alive?"

and inadvertently started working on 1851 rather than 1841, and in view of this, I think this chap David COULD be James's uncle, rather than brother.  Of course, the dates didn't fit, once you drew my attention back to the fact that it was 1841.  That would make David & Elisabeth being born around the 1807 mark, whereas I have James's provisional Birth date as around the 1820 mark and a potential brother around that same date (found a David 1825 who had a sibling James, but Greig - and inded the names James and David - is such a common name around there).  I have found a Birth record for a James born 1820 in Marykirk, along with a passle of siblings (14 children, including AT LEAST THREE sets of twins!) who seems to fit the Bill... BUT I need to do a lot more work on this before I put ANYONE down as MY James Greig Sr. 

However, I DO feel that I'm getting SOMEWHERE.  I now have a copy of James Jr's Death Certificate and I also have Mary Mowat's and Susan Philip's Death Certificates.  Nope...!  Susan's Certificate doesn't give her parents names - NUTS!! 

I spent some time in the library this afternoon.  I had to go into town so I decided to pop in and check out the MI's - they only had the Angus ones, so I had a look at St. Vigeans, and Inverkeiler, where Mary Mowat and Susan Philip respectively, are buried.  Couldn't find them in the book soooo... is it worth going to the graveyards myself, I wonder? 

Anyway... I have to go off to Glasgow tomorrow and won't be back until late Friday.  Sooooo... if it seems I have dropped off the face of the earth and have given up on this - NOT SO!  Just off to help my daughter who is expecting her second baby in just less than three weeks! (baby's due on my birthday, actually!  ) Her husband has had to go to Oxford to a conference, he couldn't get out of it and so... I have been delegated as 'daughter sitter'!  Heheheheee...  Anyway, when I get back, I shall get working on this again, and will keep you appraised.

For the moment - thanks for your help, ladies!!  It's sure appreciated!
Best wishes to you all,
Kate.