Very elusive family!

[Windsor87]

Rootschat members, I'm having a bit of trouble with three generations of my family who lived in the Dumfries area for quite some time.

The real problem starts in 1883 with the marriage of my great great grandparents James Bryson and Jane Ann Christie. They married in the parish of Hoddam on the 28 May 1883.

We have very little troble with James Bryson as I have found his birth record in the Parish of Hoddam on 17 May 1863.
The troble is with his wife. According to her marriage certificate, she was 1 year younger than her husband giving her a birth date of 1863/4. I have checked all Scottish records but can not find her birth information. Her parents were James Christie and Isabella Munro. The only thing I know is that James Christie died before 1883, and that he and his wife may have been Irish (family story) which may account for the lack of a birth record.
Anyway, in 1893 they had my Great Grandmother Christina Bryson. She was supposed to have been born in Ecclefechan, but there is no record of her birth which is a bit odd.
The next logical step was to try the census records. My searches for all of the said family had no matches in Scotland. I then checked the English census as Dumfries is on the boarder. This gave no matchs either.

So quite frankly, I'm stuck. We have a lady who could have been born in Ireland who may have resided in either Scotland or England from 1883-1901.

To make things just a bit more confusing, James Bryson died in Hoddam in 1923 aged 60, and Jane Ann Christie also died in Hoddam in 1949.

So I'll be damned if I know what is going on.

Anybody any idea?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

regards
Windsor87

[hume]

Hi Windsor,

The IGI brings up Jane Ann's birth in Fordyce, Banffshire on the 12th of September 1862. The parents are as on the marriage record you have already obtained. Another search shows her parents married on the 20th of July 1862 in Inverurie, Aberdeenshire.

I think I have found Jane on the 1881 census, living in Hoddam, Dumfriesshire. She's 18 and is a domestic nurse at the Established Church Manse. However, I can't find her or James in 1891 or 1901.

hume24

[Windsor87]

Hi Windsor,

The IGI brings up Jane Ann's birth in Fordyce, Banffshire on the 12th of September 1862. The parents are as on the marriage record you have already obtained. Another search shows her parents married on the 20th of July 1862 in Inverurie, Aberdeenshire.

I think I have found Jane on the 1881 census, living in Hoddam, Dumfriesshire. She's 18 and is a domestic nurse at the Established Church Manse. However, I can't find her or James in 1891 or 1901.

hume24

Excellent, thank you!
You have definately found her on the 1881 Census. In 1883 she was still living in the manse.
I can remember finding something in Inverurie but can remember dismissing it for some reason. I will check to see why I did that.
It is still quite puzzling. As I say, Christina Bryson was said to have been born in Ecclefechan in 1893.

The fact that Jane was born in Banffshire is quite odd as well. Her daughter Christina's husband was born in Turriff, but they married in Hoddam in 1919. 

[Windsor87]

I must have banged my head or something.

I just checked my 'viewed records' at Scotlandspeople, and all that you just said is there:

I've found Isabella Christie's (nee Munro) death certificate from 1924, Jane Ann Christie's birth certificate, the marriage certificate of James Christie and Isabella Munro...

Sorry. 

Still, there is still a missing persons case and a problem with my great grandmother...

[Annette7]

I have found the family on the 1901 Census - indexed as Bryom.

Ecclefechan, Hoddom, Dumfriesshire

James Bryom      37      General Labourer    b. Hoddom, Dumf.
Jane Ann Bryom  37                                      b. Portsoy, Banffshire
Isabella Bryom   14                                      b. Hoddom
John Bryom         13                                     b. Hoddom
Janet Bryom        11                                     b. Hoddom
Agnes Bryom       11    (twins??)                  b. Hoddom
Jane Bryom            9                                     b. Ireland
Christina Bryom     7                                     b. Ireland
James Bryom         6                                     b. Ireland
Robert Bryom        3                                     b. Hoddom
George Bryom       1                                     b. Hoddom

So, the reason you can't find Christina's birth is because she was actually born in Ireland - this is obviously why we can't find them on 1891 Census either.   Around 1890/91 the family went to Ireland and returned to Hoddom around 1897/8.

I found out the same information re. Jane Ann Christie as has been mentioned already but did find her with family on 1871 Census - indexed as Chrisley

1871 Census - 8 Keithhall Road, Inverurie, Aberdeenshire

James    35        Farm Servant Unemployed        b. Chapel, Aberdeenshire
Isabella  34                                                        b. Cullen, Banffshire
Jane      8                                                          b. Portsoy, Dumf.
James   6                                                           b. Inverurie
Christiana 4                                                         ditto
Isabella   3                                                           ditto
Mary    1                                                               ditto

Annette

[Windsor87]

 

Thanks Annette!

I'm glad I asked now.
Why would anyone go to Ireland in a time when everybody else was getting out? My family makes no sense.

It certainly explains the Irish connection. Doesn't make sense, but it explains it. Looks like my grandma was right in saying that her mother was born in Ireland. I just couldn't see how given Christina's father was Scottish.

[hume]

Well done, Annette.

Windsor, it's a shame you won't be able to get your g-grandmother's birth certificate on ScotlandsPeople, but at least you now know there is an Irish connection!

hume24

[Windsor87]

Indeed, all be it a very brief Irish connection. 

I think I've found the connection between my great grandparents Robert C. Connon (of Turriff) and Christina Bryson (of Ecclefechan Ireland).
Robert was a Sawyer/Forester and it seems that Christina's mother's family were in that trade. Still, an awful lot of moving north and south. Still doesn't explain Ireland...

Thank you both for your help. The Mystery has been solved!

By the way, my grandma always said her mother was born in Ireland, but a great aunt was always told it was Ecclefechan. This is what I wrote to her less than a month ago:

I was told that your grandmother, Christina Bryson, was born in Ireland. Having done some research, I’m not too sure. I can’t find her birth record in Scotland so that suggests that she wasn’t born here. On the other hand, if my information is correct, her father was born in Scotland and married her mother in Scotland. I’ve come to the conclusion that your great grandmother, Jane Ann Christie, was the one born in Ireland. I’m also beginning to think that Christina Bryson may have been born in the north of England (if her father was Scottish, and her parents married in Scotland, her being born in Ireland doesn’t fit.

I couldn't have been more wrong. 

[runningbear]

hi pal,

great thread...

may i add..

i think your isabella munro was the daughter of robert and jane grant.

robert married jane grant 29/12/1836 cullen

munro children from the marriage

isabella...born 15/8/1837
john...born 21/1839
barbara...born 6/2/1842
robert...born 3/9/1844
ann...born 4/4/1847
mary...born 12/12/1849
jane mason...born 29/6/1853
william...born 11/2/1857 (fordyce)

all born cullen

1851  census- seatown, cullen

robert...age 43...sawyer
jane...age 34
isabella...age 13
john...age 11
robert...age 6
ann...age 3
mary...age 1

1861 census- 40 church street, portsoy

robert...age 48
jane...age 42
isabella...age 24
mary...age 12
william...age 4

1871 census- low street, portsoy

robert...age 63...sawyer
jane...age 52
william...age 13

1881 census- 5 low street, portsoy

robert...age 76...former sawyer
jane...age 61

1881 census- 78 shiprow, (aberdeen) (christie family)

isabella...age 48...washerwoman
james...age 16...stone cutter(born 23/8/1864) (**christina- 9/4/1866)
isabella...age 13 servant(born 5/1/1868)
charles...age 7(born 8/3/1874
anne...age 3

1891 census- 2 links street, aberdeen (christie family)

isabella...age 53...washerwoman
mary...age 21...domestic servant
charles...age 17...labourer
annabella h...age 2...grand-daughter
isabella kincar...dau...age 23...shoemaker's wife
margaret jolly...age 71...visitor

1891 census- church street, portsoy

ann walker...age 40...servant
jane munro...age 71...mother...stocking knitter

1901 census- church street, portsoy

ann walker...age 50...boarding house keeper
jane munro...mother...age 81



Joe