1841 Census Kent - JONES

[katemart]

Hi

I'd be very grateful if someone could locate John Thomas JONES, Waterman on the 1841.

My ancestor was apprenticed to him in 1842 and he lived in Gravesend, so hopefully he won't be too far away!

Many thanks!

Kate

[forthefamily]

What is the name of your relative? Do you have more details about him...birthdate...place of birth etc ??

mab

[katemart]

Hi mab

It's another Jones!  Joseph John (b 1825) was apprenticed to John Thomas in 1842.  I am trying to identify Joseph's father in Deptford circa 1800 but not having much luck!

Kate

[forthefamily]

Geeeezzzz 

mab 

[katemart]

Sorry, more details - well, it's late!

Joseph John was born in 1825 in Gravesend.  He was initially a waterman, but later joined his father in the family fishing/mongering business.

His father was Joseph, born c 1800 in Deptford and I've been trying to pin down his parents for years. His first born was Joseph John and his second was John William. According to his second marr cert (aged about 76!) his father was also Joseph and a carpenter. I can't find a Joseph Jones in Deptford at this time but there is a John Jones who was a carpenter. I'm sure this is either Joseph's father or uncle.

I went to the LMA a few years ago and this was the best match I could find. Just wondering if any more info had been made available in the meantime as it is impossible for me to get to London nowadays.

K

[forthefamily]

You didn't mention if you knew his mother's name.

Well I did find a Joseph Jones age 15 in Kent Gravesend but.....

HO107/ Piece 458/Folio: 10/ Page: 15/ Line: 23

Joseph Jones age 35 Fisherman     Born - In county  (don't forget they round up/round down the years)
Mary      do    age 40                        do
Joseph   do    age 15                        do
John       do    age 10                        do
Mary Ann  do   age 8 ?                      do

Sorry that's the closest I could find. However, Kent is not an area I'm familiar with.....maybe someone one else can find a match and help you out 

mab

[forthefamily]

You probably have already seen this 

On IGI I did find a Birth: Joseph John Jones     28 FEB 1825
     
Christening:     24 APR 1825      St Paul, Deptford, Kent, England

Parents:
     Father:     Joseph Jones    
     Mother:     Mary Jones    
            
Unfortunately it doesn't say what the source of the record is ie. submitted versus extracted.

But it's all relative if it isn't the right person 

mab

[forthefamily]

If this is your  folks...I did find a birth/christening 1830 for Mary Ann with the same parents that was an extracted record  The census record was hard to read. The age for Mary Ann could be age 5 or 8 


mab

[katemart]

Dear mab

Thank you so much for all your digging. Yes, I am fairly certain that this is my lot: there is a record for Joseph Jones = Mary Elizabeth Belson at Lewisham St Mary and in the 1851 the wife is listed as Mary E.

It is the rounded age in 41 for Joseph that causes the problem. There is no suitable birth in the IGI (Joseph has his place of birth as Deptford in all censuses and gives his age as 51 in 1851, 60 in 61, 70 in 71, 80 in 81 and died aged 82 in Oct 1882 so I don't know if he's being very accurate or just making a guess). But there are no Josephs, s/o Joseph at all.

I have therefore been working on the assumption that he could be s/o John (that the father Joseph is an error in his 2nd marr cert - I have a copy of the register of his 1st marr and there are no father's names), esp as he passed this name onto his sons.

Now, interestingly (to me!) there is a Joseph born to John and Elizabeth in Lewisham St Mary in 1801. This does not tie in with the birthplace of Deptford which he gives in all censuses after 1841. However, Mary Elizabeth Bellson was definitely born in Deptford so if they had both been born there surely they would have got married there? The marriage took place in Lewisham so surely that must have been the parish of one of them? This would add more weight to the father being John, not Joseph.

I was hoping that the John Thomas that Joseph apprenticed his son to was his brother, uncle or cousin and that I could locate Joseph's birth by going back to this common ancestor. Any sightings of John Thomas Jones, Waterman, along the Thames in 41 and 51 would hopefully provide me with a birthdate and place.

Sorry it's so long-winded but it is so difficult locating this pre-1837 info with a surname like Jones! 

Best wishes and many thanks again for all your trouble.

Kate