henry green > 1890's excuted Wandsworth

[ShaunJ]

It might be worth having a look in  "The Chronicles of James Berry, Victorian Hangman "
by Stewart Evans

http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=5223744
http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/welcome.jsp?isbn=9780750934077&source=1177945481

[Valda]

If a prisoner's full name was known he would be tried under that with the alias recorded as well or vice versa if it was an alias of long standing. For sentencing purposes the judge would always need to know about any past offences the prisoner might have. As Harry/Henry Green was openly Harry Green on the 1891 census and visited in prison by his wife, it doesn't seem possible that the authorities wouldn't know his real name.

Marriages Dec 1890  
Green  Henry     Wandsworth  1d 1016    
Jutsum  Fanny     Wandsworth  1d 1016

Harry Green was aged 19 on the 1891 census (no Harry/Henry Green of the same age born Battersea on the 1901 census). Census night 1891 was 5th April.

but there appears to be no record of the hanging

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/contents.html

full list - of hangings at Wandsworth 1891-1901

21st July 1891 Franz Munch aged 31 for the murder of Jane Hickey
19th August 1891 Robert Bradshaw aged 56 wife murder
11th October 1892 John James Banbury aged 22 for the murder of Ann Emma Oakley
18th June 1895 Joseph Canning aged 32 for the murder of Jane Youell
2nd July 1895 Henry Tickner aged 42 wife murder
4th February 1896 William Morgan 56 wife murder
5th January 1897 Henry Brown aged 32 wife murder
3rd May 1899 Frederick Andrews aged 45 wife muder
4th October 1899 Robert Ward aged 27 murder of two daughters
19th March 1901 George Parker (Hill) aged 23 for the murder of William Pearson
13th August 1901 Ernest Wickham 30 for the murder of Amy Eugenie Russell (girlfriend)

There were two Richard Greens with births registered in Wandsworth registration district in 1891

Births Sep 1891  
Green  Richard    Wandsworth  1d 755    
Births Dec 1891  
Green  Richard George     Wandsworth  1d 600

No Green deaths in Wandsworth registration district in 1891 for any Green male near Harry's age, or any Harry or Henry.

Wandsworth prison registers are held at the London Metropolitan Archives.

The Times did cover executions at Wandsworth, though not necessarily all the trials.

James Berry hanged 6 men at Wandsworth prison between 1885 and 1891

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/wands.html

Besides the two already listed in 1891

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/contents.html

lists 4 other hangings at Wandsworth, 2 in 1890, 1 in 1889 and 1 in 1885.

I have a copy of 'My experiences as an executioner' by James Berry first published in 1892. He doesn't mention Henry Green, but then he doesn't list all the people he hanged in his 'career' (131). He retired in 1892.

'In March 1892 Berry wrote his letter of resignation, probably without knowing that in October of the previous year the Home Office had already decided that "the employment of Berry as Executioner should no longer be recommended to the High Sheriffs".'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Berry_(hangman)

'His final execution was carried out at Edinburgh on the 11th of January 1892 when he hanged Frederick Storey. James Berry was not popular with the Home Office because of his drinking, holding 'court' in a local pubs after executions, and his behaviour at the hanging of John Conway within Liverpool’s Kirkdale prison on the 20th of August 1891.  Berry resigned in early 1892.'

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hangmen.html


Who did Fanny go onto 'marry'? Have you found her on the 1901 census?

Regards

Valda

[ShaunJ]

The only likely candidate I can find in GRO deaths in 1891 is this one:

Q/E Dec 1891

GREEN Henry George   21    Chelsea 1a   262   

But I would have expected a death in Wandsworth to be recorded in Wandsworth!

[Valda]

Executions like all deaths in this country are registered in the district they took place

e.g.

Deaths Sep 1891   
Munch  Franz Joseph  31  Wandsworth  1d 377
Deaths Sep 1891 
Bradshaw  George Robert  54  Wandsworth  1d 381
Deaths Dec 1892
Banbery  John James  22  Wandsworth  1d 394
Deaths Jun 1895   
Canning  Joseph  34  Wandsworth  1d 389
Deaths Sep 1895   
Tickner  Henry  47  Wandsworth  1d 431

etc.

From the one death certificate I hold for an execution (botched by Berry) since the death was not by natural causes, like all such deaths it had to go to an inquest and the (in this case Deputry) Coroner was the informant.
The cause of death merely reads 'hanging'. The inquest took place on the same day as the execution and would have been a more formality, probably signed off by the Deputy Coroner who may have been present as a witness at the hanging, once death was pronounced - not a hard one there as Berry practically decapitated the man (a fact he doesn't mention in his book).


Regards

Valda

[Valda]

If 1872 (from the 1891 census) is his correct age, I can't see any Henry Green death registrations in London between 1891 and 1901 that would fit. I can see one Harry Green.

Deaths Mar 1896 
Green  Harry  24  Islington  1b 224

However there were plenty of Harry Greens in London of roughly the same age on the 1891 census

Pentonville Prison would register deaths in Islington registration district, but Pentonville did not have capital punishment until after the closure of Newgate prison in 1902. Still if Henry/Harry Green was in prison and died there then family folklore may have expanded on the manner of his death in prison.


Regards

Valda

[frederickay]

Lesson of the day .1
keep sources /
2. do not ASSUME.
i have asked my sister where she got her info and she  assumed ?
she thought because the family lived in Wandsworth that Henry Green would be hung
 in Wandsworth prison .
 so the facts that we do KNOW>
Frances (d/o Georgeand Sophia  jutsum was born 1874)
she was living with Henry Green with her parents Sophia and George Jutsum in 1891 census .
we know that George Jutsum died in March 1895.
So.
 For Henry Green to have been hung it must be between 1891 and 1895 .
We know that my decs. cousin was told the story by his grandmother Sophia . he also mentions she loved telling tales and was not beyond exaggeration . he went thru all the "times "and could not find any record of the crime .
I see that there is a Henry green accused of murder in 1881 , Can't be ours but could be related and therefore  the family got story well and truly confused .
lets hope not because we have already informed the family and will be really red faced . i will spend the rest of my time finding this man .
Frances was involve d with her new fella by 1897 if not sooner.
A very red faced Frederickay.

[Valda]

If there was a Henry Green accused of murder in 1881 he wasn't hung either. Ineveitably with a surname like Green, someone somewhere is going to be involved in a serious crime.

Other than Wandsworth, the only London prison where capital punishment took place was Newgate which hanged nobody in 1891, 5 men in 1892 and 1 in each year thereafter up to 1895. The youngest of these was aged 24 in 1894.

Deaths Sep 1894
Koczula  Paul  24  London C.  1c 16   
Koezula  Paul  24  London C.  1c 16

Deaths for all of them should register in London City.

I think the nearest other prisons which carried out capital punishment were Reading, Winchester and Chelmsford, but there are no Henry Greens or Greens hanged between 1891 and 1895.

Having someone hanged, even when it is in the extended family is generally not something which is quickly forgotten. My father's second cousin 4 times removed (so not a very close relationship - a marriage in the 1730s) was hung in the 1880s and the extended family all knew about it in the 50s and 60s. However my father's aunt (lots of aunts and uncles) went into an asylum for post-natal depression in 1920 when my father was a child, and remained there dying in the 1940s. None of us in our line of the family knew about that however.
You can't really cover up a hanging because of the press coverage of the trial etc and the effect it would have on all members of the extended family within the community. Placing close female members of the family in asylums however is strictly a family affair which can get hushed up within a generation!!


Regards

Valda

[frederickay]

hi i have reread the letter to me dated 1996.Dick Austen , the letter writer is quoted as saying;

 ' MY MOTHER (Ellen b. 1885 .not his grandmother as i thought ) painted a lurid story about the nite before Henry Green  was to be hung ".
.
The baby Richard Green, later known as Dick as well,   was taken to the goal for the  "last '' visit . He was then bought up  by the Jutsums as their son.

As you can see Ellen would have been about 6/7 when all this was going on but as Henry Green and Frances were living with her and her parents in 1891  she must have had  some kernel of truth.

I will trawl thru all the sites and find out what i can. thanks for all your info.
Jan

[PrueM]

Hi Jan,

It's sounding less likely that Henry Green was actually hanged, from the info found by Valda and others - executions seem to have been very well recorded at that time.

You just never know how families will deal with tragedy...in this case perhaps the tragedy was that Henry Green was imprisoned, or simply left his family, and Ellen was told a story about what had happened to him - it wouldn't be the first time    You wouldn't believe the web of lies spun by my great-grandmother to her daughter (my Nana) about great-gran's family history - none of her stories were anywhere near the truth and it took me years to untangle it all    But it was just the way some people coped with things.

Unfortunately I'm beginning to think this might be the case with your own family story...but I'll be very happy to be proved otherwise! (If it's possible to be happy about finding out someone was hanged    )

Cheers
Prue