Author Topic: charlton high jinks!!  (Read 6579 times)

Offline diddymiller

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charlton high jinks!!
« on: Tuesday 12 August 08 16:18 BST (UK) »
Thomas Charlton b. 1842 percy main married mary Ann gardner 3/8/1862 in Tynemouth.
William was born 5/2/1863 percy main
Elizabeth 1865.

thomas died in a railway accident sept 1871 in Newcastle.
Mary Ann I thought married Thomas Purvis before the 1881 census. However, i have at long last just traced them on the 1871 census (April) and they are down as married!!  def them as all names / places / dates / children etc  match.
I also have a possible census for T.Charlton in Newcastle on his own as a cabsman. he died as a goods guard on the railway.

Is it possible T.Charlton & Mary Ann divorced - did that happen then - OR - she could have just been living with T.Purvis (& had children by him - John T age 1, who i had always assumed was T.Purviss from a previous marriage) and the enumerator assumed they were married.

any thoughts?  cheers . Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 21:23 BST (UK) »
Diddy,

To help potential helpers help you, it would be helpful if you shared the info you have, e.g. Census references.

There was no " common" divorce then.  The expensive method of divorce was a individual private Act of Parliament.

Michael Dixon
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Offline O1dgobbo

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 21:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Diddy

Freebmd has a Thomas Anderson Purvis marrying in Newcastle in Q3 1865 and a possible bride is Mary Ann Riley.  Are you sure that your 1871 census entry refers to Mary Ann Gardner and not to Mary Ann Riley?

All the best

Gobbo
Aberdeenshire - Chalmers, Crocker, Dalrymple, Kelman
Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith

Offline diddymiller

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 09:12 BST (UK) »
hi everyone. yes sorry Michael - i have so much its difficult to know where to start.

The crucial 1871 census is def them from A**
Jarrow:
Thomas Purvis   H  m 25 carpenter  berwick
Mary Ann Purvis W m 25                  Percy Main
Elizabeth Purvis          7                   Percy main ( Eliz. Charlton)
John Thomas  Purvis   1                    Jarrow

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)


Offline O1dgobbo

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 11:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Diddy

The 1871 Jarrow family do indeed look to be Mary Ann and Elizabeth living as wife and child with Thomas Purvis (RG10 5040 70 p33 - It's best to always give this citation in case the entry has been indexed under the wrong name).  In addition you can find young William Charlton, the son, living with his Grandparents in Percy (RG10 5115 36 p2).

With Thomas Charlton, the father, living until Sep 1871 there is clearly some irregularity in the census claim that Thomas was married - Mary Ann was probably married but to William not Thomas.  Thomas is recorded as born in Eyemouth, Berwickshire so he was Scottish.  At this time the Scottish law on marriage differed from English law in that the relationship did not need to be registered to be established it was sufficient that the couple should set up house together and jointly acknowledge parentage of any children.  So Thomas may not have been aware of this difference between English and Scottish law and probably considered himself married because he was living with and having children by Mary Ann.

Of course if you should discover a registered English marriage between the couple before September 1871 then it would almost certainly have been a bigamous marriage.

It is probably not relevant in this case since I imagine that Thomas was not a wealthy man but had he been there might have been all sorts of complications with his estate when he died - see Wilkie Collins's novel "No name".

All the best

Gobbo

Whoops in the original post I wrote "William" instead of "Thomas" at the start of the second paragraph and hence confused Diddy as well as myself. Sorry!
Aberdeenshire - Chalmers, Crocker, Dalrymple, Kelman
Fife - Co?per, Dun, Jackson
NE England - Harland, Hasted, Heaviside, Longridge, Thompson
SE England - Drawbridge, Hall, Hayward, Howard, Newell, Seward, Slade, Smith

Offline Gadget

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 13:33 BST (UK) »
Quote
At this time the Scottish law on marriage differed from English law in that the relationship did not need to be registered to be established it was sufficient that the couple should set up house together and jointly acknowledge parentage of any children.

Although this was the case, as Diddy would know better than most  :), it would still have been bigamy if Mary Ann's husband (and they m. 1862)  was still alive and they declared themselves as married.

It looks to me like a separation and the two just living together.  It might be that they were being truthful on the census - they were both married but not to each other.

 Has a marriage of the two been found post-1871.


Gadget
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Offline diddymiller

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 14:46 BST (UK) »
thanks for that - interesting take on it. yes i too think T.Purvis and Mary ann were not married. didn't know about English / Scottish difs.

do not understand :
With William Charlton, the father, living until Sep 1871 there is clearly some irregularity in the census claim that Thomas was married - Mary Ann was probably married but to William not Thomas.

Mary Anns marriage ( Ihave cert) was to Thomas Charlton (1842 - 1871)- her son was William ( my GGrandfather). I have him living with the gardners 1871 /81/91
 do not have Thomas (1842) on 1851 census. 1861 living with Ann Middleton his father Williams 2nd wife/widow.

Do not have details of this William believed death around 1861 - not got marriages 1. Elizabeth Sanderson (Thomas / Elizabeth mother) 2. Ann Middleton b.1808 New York ,Nbland

Diddy
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline diddymiller

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 14:57 BST (UK) »
have searched for a marriage between 1865 (birth of Elizabeth) and 1871. not found a match yet....
Cooks -(Clackmannanshire); Erskines - (fife); Youngs - (Dunfermline); Charltons - (Tyneside ); Skillings - (N.Norfolk); Legg - (N.Yorks, Tyneside) ; Carter - (Durham); Miller -(suffolk); Pattinson -(Lincs)

Offline Gadget

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Re: charlton high jinks!!
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 15:07 BST (UK) »
looks increasingly like a bidie-in, Diddy  :-\
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