Samuel ROSENTHAL Lookup Vic Please

[cando]

David's place of birth on one of his childrens' birth certificate would be on way of finding his place of birth or you could purchase the following cert but not at all sure if it is them.  I suppose I have listed the marriage as I have seen some appalling writing when doing transcribing from the district registers for UKBMD.  I really have my doubts about this one though.

Marriages Dec 1855 
OESTERMAN    Julia     London    1c/275    
ROSENTHAL    John David London 1c/275


Most of the births are on the NLA website

ROSENTHAL Esther
Father David Mother Julia ARONSON
At St Kilda 1862  Reg#23842
 
ROSENTHAL Marion
Father David  Mother Julia ARONSON
At St Kilda 1964 Reg#11902

ROSENTHAL Rosa
Father David  Mother Julia ARONSON
At St Kilda  1866  Reg#5085

ROSENTHAL John Ernest David
Father David  /Mother Julia ARONSON
At St Kilda 1867  Reg# 24874

ROSENTHAL Ethel
Father David  Mother Julia ARONSON
At St Kilda  1873  Reg#20392

I think one of the chns' birth certs would be a much better idea ie if you are intending using that credit card

Cando

[regross]

Hello,

Help may also be found with the Australian Jewish Genealogical Society (Victoria) Inc.

www.ajgs.exist.com.au
email ajgs[at]exist.com.au
or PO Box 189 Glenhuntly 3163
Victoria Australia

I have found while helping a friend research her usbands Jewish ancestors that the Jewish family history groupd have access to lots of inforamtion not otherwise available.

regards

Robyn

[sarra]

I'm afraid I don't have very much information from the manifest for the Somersetshire..... as it was an unassisted passage.

Port of Embarkation -  Gravesend...bound for Melbourne.

ROSENTHAL  Samuel - age 17 - single -  occupation - merchant - foreigner (listed as an adult).

LESSER Rebecca -  age 23 - married - profession,occupation or calling of passenger - wife - foreigner.  

Looking at this passenger list....I would say they travelled together  - Steerage Passengers.

It appears if you were not English, Irish or Scotch, you were a Foreigner.

Perhaps not what you were hoping to find.

Sarra

[sue21757]

Hi All

Cando i found his naturalization papers on the na site it states a place of birth but a bit hard to decipher.David had beautiful writing,the request is in the same hand as his will.

Robyn thanks for those sites will have a look when i get home.

Sarra thankyou so much for looking that up for me.I find it interesting that it states that rebecca is married and not a widow.So now i am wondering if she was coming out to meet up with her husband.

Cheers Sue

[majm]

Bit More,

I'm struggling to read the native place on the naa site, but can I suggest that Sue considers saving part of that image as a jpeg and posting it on the Deciphering board here at RChat, I'm sure someone will recognise the town.  Could be Sirpce, or Tirpae, or variations.   Remember that we don't yet found a genie link between Samuel and David but ....

I wonder as Rebecca Lesser was noted as "wife" on the manifest how that got translated to "widow" on the index?  Could there be other lists somewhere in PROV.... 

Anyways, we are at this spot and I think its worthwhile spending some time figuring out the birthplace of David.

JM

[sue21757]

Hi JM

Sorry i can not work out how to find the document on my computer to crop it.Rebecca was meant to have been born in Scholanke in Prussia so David's town looks nothing like that.
Bit of a mystery that she listed  as married not widow on the manifest.
Thanks for all your help.

Regards Sue

[cando]

This seems to be a possibility. Not unusual to have spelling variations on foreign names.  I doubt David actually wrote the Memorial - note his signature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpc

You have written Scholanke perhaps it is Schonlanke.
http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/poland/map/m748359/schonlanke.html

Sue I think you have to consider the conditions under which passenger information was relayed....accents, illiteracy all contribute to incorrect information on ships' manifests.  Assisted passenger records tend to be more accurate ie if the passenger was truthful about their information.  Google for more information.

There is ongoing transcribing by volunteers of the ships' manifests.  I understand many of them are very fragile and illegible.  I applaud them for their work.

David ROSENTHAL stated in his Memorial that he arrived on the Sydney in 1852 but his name does not appear on the index.  This is not the first time I have found names missing from passenger records.  Many passengers were listed as X men and women in steerage.

I note that Samuel was listed as a merchant on the shipping index.  Wonder if he was the tobacconist discussed earlier on the thread.  I noticed in a Victorian Government Gazette an application to register a trademark by David and partners, and included a mention of pipes.  The same application has a file on NAA.

Many married woman emigrated after their spouses to Australia.  Perhaps Rebecca gave her name and status as Mrs Rebecca Lesser and it was assumed she was married.  I really don't fuss to much about such information on the shipping records.  Others may think differently.

Cando

[sue21757]

Hi Cando

The marriage cert that i downloaded for Samuel Rosenthal and Bessie Glance his occupation was tobacconist.It also states that he became a widower on the 14/1/1883.A little added information from the rabbi.
Samuel that married Annie Dodsworth is a bootmaker.
Yes i did mean Schonlanke it is the one thing that came of the 1911 census that was helpful.
I have sent an e-mail of to the Australian Jewish G S Vic. so will wait and see if they have anything.
Thanks again all of you for your help.
Will let you know when i get a reply.

Cheers Sue

[majm]

Hi Sue,

Did you notice that there's an S Rosenthal mentioned in this article which has not yet been fully uploaded as it's still being digitised.

The Argus (Melbourne,... Friday 1 December 1882, page 9. News 294 words
... president of the Chamber of Commerce Mr John Woods M Ii A and Messrs S Rosenthal J K Blogg and II t Grist...

Cheers, JM