Merchant seamen

[nameless]

I have a merchant seaman ancestor who just disappeared, no death certificate in GRO records.  I wondered if anyone knows how family were informed if a seaman died?  The widow couldn't read and the children were small, so a letter wouldn't have been an option.  The men wouldn't necessarily have signed on in their home port so I have wondered about this.
Also how were seamen paid?  I'm wondering how their families managed while they were away.

I would appreciate any information.

[seaweed]

A full name, date and place of birth and the year he died/ disappeared would be a big help.

[Roobarb]

I also have a merchant seaman whose death I can't find so would be interested to see if anyone has any ideas about how the widow would be notified.

[nameless]

A full name, date and place of birth and the year he died/ disappeared would be a big help.

The man is (Edward ) Thomas Elliott, born 1827/1828 according to his only entry on 1851 Bristol census. No definite census entry after that although there are lots of men with the same name around the country.  According to 1851 he was born in Bristol but I can't find a definite baptism for him or any parents.  The last child attributed to him was born 3rd June 1860.
A researcher looked up records and saw that an Edward Thomas Elliott boarded the ship "Hornby" in Bristol in 1854.

His children married in 1865, 1871, 1873, 1882, 1883 and only on the 1873 marriage does it say "father deceased", although on his wife's death cert in 1889 it calls her a widow.  After watching shows I wondered if he went to the "Gold Rush".
The GRO couldn't find any entries here or overseas which matched.  Lots of people on here have tried to find something about him for me.

I just wondered if he had joined a ship in say Liverpool, then died or disappeared how word would have got to his family?

Thanks.

[seaweed]

HORNBY was a 279 t Barque built in Bristol in 1833 owned in 1854 by C Hill. She undertook a voyage to the West Indies in that year under the command of J Lewin. She was registered in Bristol
Seafaring by it's very nature is a dangerous undertaking, more so in the 19th century. Many men were lost without trace or record of death. I doubt very much if the was a formal response on how a widow would have been notified of her spouse's demise.

Try searching the BT154 and BT 155 series at the National Archive. A trip to Kew would be the way to go.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=1625&GPE=False&MARKER=0

[mosstrooper]

Dear Nameless,
                            I was a Merchant Navy Officer myself in the 60s. My uncle was a Merchant Seaman during WW2
He lost his nerve during a Convoy over the Atlantic being tracked by U boats, and jumped overboard. They saw him come to the surface behind, but the Ship "Socony" could not pull out of the Convoy or stop to look for him because they would have been attacked and sunk. It was a Tanker (floating bomb). Five of the crew jumped ship upon reaching America and were never seen again, so take what you will from that.

What I'm going to tell you relates to Scotland, but should be much the same in England.

Here we search Scotlandspeople for B/D/Ms in his case it said the death record was held in The Marine Register of Deaths, not on Scotlandspeople.

I made a written request to The General Register Office in Edinburgh for an extract of an entry in the Marine Registry Book. I received a copy of his death certificate giving all personal information and the exact position of the ship at sea where he went missing, 56' 10" North - 14' 08" West.

I also received 8 pages copy of the Ships Log Book, it can be up to 11 pages, giving a concise report on the events leading up to, and following the loss of my uncle, written by the Captain and First Officer. This included fine detail such as a complete list of his personal effects, socks, pants, Razor money etc.

This was given as - Return of Deaths reported to the Registrar-General of Shipping & Seamen under the provisions of the Merchant Shipping Act 1894.

James.

[Ringoroses]

I have a merchant seaman ancestor who just disappeared, no death certificate in GRO records.

 

I think it depends on when he died. In the 1850s I'm not sure how it worked, but by the 1880s, if a ship disappeared, the last crewlist they handed over would be used to notify the authorities back home of the likely dead. If it was a British ship he was on, they were obliged to notify the authorities, but I don't know when that started.  Have you accessed the crew agreement for ship you're looking into? (the Newfoundland archives hold most of them, or you may be luck and find them in the NMM in London, if the year of loss ended in a 0 or a 5).

I wondered if anyone knows how family were informed if a seaman died?

  I think often the family would get an inkling before it was confirmed, that something was wrong. I think it took so long to get official confirmation, that they usually just put two together when thier loved one didn't arrive home after a certain length of time.  After that, notices of shipping losses, or missing ships were posted at local shipping offices  regularly, after Lloyds (the main underwriters) posted it's lists of missing/lost ships,. These appeared in the newspapers.

The widow couldn't read and the children were small, so a letter wouldn't have been an option. 

They may not have been able to read themselves, but someoone would have been able to locally (preists, local business people and such like). So if they got a letter, they'd just ask someone to read it to them - although in such circumstances, I'd imagine they'd suspect there was a problem as soon as the recieved a letter.. But  news of a local loss would've spread fast on the local grapevine anyway. In my opinion, these were widespread 'communities',  with a global grapevine much like twitter is today! And if someone they knew was headed somewhere, and didn't arrive, the family probably knew about it before the authorities did.

The men wouldn't necessarily have signed on in their home port so I have wondered about this.Also how were seamen paid? 

Again, I don't know about the 1850s, but by the 1870s,  crew agreements would be lodged in the port of departure and used if a loss was incured (for insurance purposes I'd imagine). And I know from my own research that a proportion of the seaman's wage could have been paid directly to wives at the local shipping office. (I have at least one family member who did that).  But I think it was something the mariner would have to 'set up', I don't think it was done automatically.

I know by 1875 telegraph was being used to 'wire' local shipping offices of shipping movements and of observations made by vessels en route (if they saw suspicious debris, say, or if they passed other vessels en route). But again, I don't know when that started.

Don't know if any of that was any use, just my opinion based on my own research in to my many merchan mariners.

[nameless]

Thank you all for the very helpful and interesting information.  The GRO checked overseas deaths for me but I don't know if they would have checked the Marine deaths.

That is so sad about the man going overboard.  The men must have suffered so much during the war.

I think I'll start by looking in the local newspaper records just in case anything is reported about the ship.  Unfortunately Bristol Record Office doesn't have any crew lists for that time.

I'm very pleased to find out about the Hornby.  There seems to have been a few ships named that.

Thank you all again, I have something more to look into now.  All of your information gives me more idea about the man's life.  He's such a mystery that I am extremely curious to find out anything about him.

[Roobarb]

Very interesting and informative for me too.

  Have you accessed the crew agreement for ship you're looking into? (the Newfoundland archives hold most of them, or you may be luck and find them in the NMM in London, if the year of loss ended in a 0 or a 5).

Ann, I  found this particularly interesting as someone who had done extensive research into part of my ancestry said that my seaman was a deep sea fisherman off the coast of Newfoundland. Is there any particular reason why the records are held in the Newfoundland archives? It sounds a good place for me to investigate but how do I go about that?
He appeared on the 1841 census, can't find him in 1851 and in 1861 his wife was shown as widowed. I have no idea what ship he was on at all.