COMPLETED: JOHNSTONE Mary married BROWN William

[Gadget]

Hi again

Is it possible for you to quote the part of the testimonial that relates to Charles A's father, place of residence in Dumfries and  father's occupation, please.

He is very likely to be related in some sway to the 1841 family as he and Robert are together in Annan on the 1851.

Maybe the Elizabeth, aged 48 on the 1841, is the widow of a George.


Gadget

[Wiggy]

Certificates are ordered - should be here in just under a fortnight all things being equal!

Interesting that there are two Georges in this family isn't it? And one is not father of the other - cousin maybe!  You could be right about Elizabeth, and she could have brought her own children to the household with her.  Will definitely be interesting to find David and Mary senior's death certs.

I'm looking for the testimonial - I may have given it to my cousin - as soon as I locate it I will quote!!

Wiggy

[Wiggy]

Hi Gadget,

Just received copies of the two papers carrying the testimonial for C.A.Johnstone  D&G courier and Herald, and D&G Standard and advertiser:  this from the Courier and Herald.

Mr Johnstone who is the youngest son of the late Mr George Johnstone of Dinwoodie and Holmains Dumfriesshire was born in this parish. He received his education chiefly at Lochmaben Parish school and served his apprenticeship as a druggist with the late Mr McKinnell in Annan.  In 1854 at the termination of his apprenticeship, he accepted an appointment with the firm of Messrs Woolley, Sons and Co, wholesale chemists and druggists of Manchester . . .
Mr Johnstone, who now resides at Whaley Bridge, married the daughter of Mr John McFarlane Little of Maryfield Dumfries.  She died in 1892.  (I think - or 1902 hard to read) leaving a family of five daughters and two sons, the eldre being a pharm. chemist with Messrs Woolley and the younger son a doctor at Sandboch Cheshire while his two nephews, sons of his brother David Johnstone, Dr George and Dr David Johnstone are in pracitce at Middleton and Brighouse respectively.

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You've got the right one  I think (you are a star!) - and it would seem that that big family in Applegarth (or some of them at least) belong to George Johnstone - (not David of our G-G-grandmother) - unless her death cert is wrong - which is possible.  Am I making sense??   I think the family in blue might be our Mary's - what do you think?  Maybe there are two families mixed up in that Applegarth household.   Maybe Elizabeth is the widow of George - I wonder if both David and Mary - 'parents of Mary' - are both dead  (or on holiday!!)

Wiggy

[Gadget]

Hi Wiggy

Can I get back to you on this?  I need to have a think and I'm on 'busman's holiday' at the moment.

I think we need to check out the two nephews - George and David Johnstone and trace them back 


Gadget

[Wiggy]

I have now received copies of marriage banns for William BROWN and Mary JOHNSTONE, and the marriage certificate for Charles JOHNSTONE and Charlotte LITTLE.

The banns proclamation doesn't give any details of the family just the parishes from which the two to be married hailed.  William from Mollins parish of Johnstone and Mary from Holmains.  Nothing further about families.

The certificate for the second couple gives the names of their fathers but not where they came from so I don't know that I am any further forward with the search.   I might be - but I can't tell!!      
Charles' father was George JOHNSTONE, farmer- it doesn't say if he was in Scotland or Lancashire - but I'm presuming Dumfriesshire - (mostly because I want to - I can see no other reason for assuming this.)    Charlotte's father was John McFarlane LITTLE, gentleman.   both parties to the marriage were living in Chorlton at the time of marriage.    No other information except witnesses were David Little and Annie Watson and they were married in the Presbyterian church, 15th Feb 1866.   Pity the mothers aren't named

Don't know if this is the right Charles - his occupation is given as Commercial Traveller (it could have been for drug company I suppose) Edit     Yes it is - that's what you said  I realise

does any of this help at all I wonder?   

I've been looking around the census and BMD for other likely candidates but so far have drawn a blank.  I found a Robert BRAWN born in Dalry at about the right time - I'm  guessing - but Dalry seems too far away from the scene of the action to be right.   Although his wife's name is Jannet, the surname is Easdale not Eskdale.  she also was born in Dalry.

Wiggy         

[Wiggy]

Hi Gadget,

Chasing up Mary's death certificate again - it says she was 75 in 1899 - but I think you are right and the certificate is wrong - when they immigrated in 1859 she was 33 (ship's list)- and that fits with the birth year of 1826 - William is given as 43 which also fits with his birth year 1816.

Been trying to find the nephews - no luck to date.  Still trying.    I remember you said a while ago that you found a David who was a Doctor!  You may have hit the target there.

Wiggy
 

[Gadget]

Hi Wiggy

I've not got anything to add as I'm having great probs with my eyes at the moment - too many photo restores and too many lookups.  Do follow up those nephews.

Gadget

[Wiggy]

Having no luck tracing the nephews to Charles to date.
Think I have found the family from the 1841 census again in the 1851 census.  Ref 818

Elizabeth is there but this time George the father seems to be there also. also James Agnes, William  - and Jesse Pool the servant and a new person David Kirkpatrick.

1861 I think I have them again Again 818 ref. same three 'children with them and different farm hands or whatever they are.  Isabell Carruthers and Robert Brown (not our Robert Brown though).  Ages are consistent to be same family - I am guessing these are cousins of our Mary and the David and George we want as doctors already referred to - but I can't find the boys, nor can I find their family with David and Mary as parents.

Still looking.

Edit to add - just found the nephew David (Dr) living with Charles in Manchester in 1901 aged 28 - so I wonder if it may be a great-nephew although the age fits with Charles own children. Still no sign of George also a Dr.   

Wiggy

[Gadget]

Hi Wiggy 

I've not read through this thread fully so I may have missed something  but............

On the 1901 that you mentioned and I linked to in Reply #12, David A Johnstone, the nephew, was born Carlisle circa 1873

How about this one on the 1881:

Town Head, Lochmaben
840 ED 2 Page 10

Johnstone
George,  88, retired farmer, b. Dryfesdale
James, son, 57, retired farmer, b. -do-
William,  son, 48, -do-, b. Applegarth
Agnes, grd, 12. b. England
George, grds,10, b. do-
David, grds, 8, b. -do-
Agnes Common, servant, 49, domestic servant, b. West Kirk


This seems to link directly to the 1841 family (Reply #16)



and George's death in 1883, Lochmaben:

George Johnston, farmer, Widower of Elizabeth Brand.

Died - Sept 18th 1883, Townhead, Lochmaben, aged 91 years

Parents - David Johnstone, farmer and Mary m.s. Wallace

Cause - senile debility and senile bronchitis, 8 days as certified by Thomas Reid M.D.

Informant - James Johnstone, son, present

I've had a good look at the 1841 and it's been wrongly transcribed-  George was 48  in 1841 rather than 24.

The 1841 entry should read:

Johnstone
George, 48, farmer
Elisabeth, 48
David, 18
James, 17
Mary, 15
Agnes, 14
John, 13
George, 11
Robert, 9
William, 9
Francis, 7
Charles, 6

All born Dumfriesshire


See attached.





Gadget