A real test for Militia experts!!!

[Marko]

I am attempting to attach a photo of one of my relatives from many years ago. This photo belongs to my mother and is one of her Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire family from about 1880.
I believe his name was Marshall or Lamb and either came from Belchford - Horncastle way or was from Clayworth -Gainsborough area.
I think the uniform is Militia but I am not sure. I think the gun is either a match or flintlock. The cap badge is visible but not distinct. It may have 45 on it?
The uniform "looks" like American civil war but I doubt it is due to the date.
Any ideas as I have approached several enthusiasts without much luck.
All assistance will be gratefully accepted on gun, cap badge or uniform.
Many thanks,

Mark

[Leofric]

Marko,

If the cap badge does have 45 on it, then it could be your man served in the 45th Regiment (Nottinhamshire) Sherwood Foresters. It was almalgamated with the Derby Regt in 1881.

Read about it (and see a clear cap badge diagram) at
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sherwoodtimes/foresters.htm

good hunting, plenty more sites on Google for the 45th, but opt for UK sites only or you'll get loads of US army too!

[Marko]

Leofric,

Thank-you so much for your reply. The only one I have had! You may well be right about the Sherwood Foresters but although I believe the badge may have 45 on it, it does not resemble the one on the link you drew my attention to. However having said that I certainly appreciate your reply.

I was hoping there maybe someone who would recognise the uniform, gun cap etc as they are all distinctive. It means a lot to me to work out his origin as I may work out exactly who he is!!

Anyway thanks again and if you have any more ideas please don't hesitate to get in touch!! Your a mate! Cheers.

Mark

[Leofric]

Marko,

I've had look in my book on uniforms to compare your photo...

The 'cap' on the table is called a shako. It was worn until 1878 by Service Companies and by some Depot Companies until 1881.

The serge (red) frock coat your man is wearing looks identical to one in my book (for infantry of the line), even down to the piping on the sleeve. Early versions (1868) had 5 buttons down the front but this was later changed to 7. I think your photo has 7.

The 'gun' on issue at this time was the Snider-Enfield rifle (which looks just like a musket in my book). Between 1871-1874 this was replaced by the true breech loading Martini-Henry rifle. Clearly, this isn't what your man has.

I hope these dates help you. Of course, if your man was militia rather than regular, it is possible that they had to make do with older equipment for some years later. Something to ponder is the fact that he has a full beard. I think that regular soldiers were only allowed to grow beards when on campaign, but I may be wrong.

Leofric

[Marko]

Hi Leofric,

Many many thanks!!!!     You are really are a star!   Now some really naive questions!

I don't know my relative was in the Militia, I just assumed he was in an armed force of the area.
So what exactly is a Service Company or a Depot Company?
If he was infantry is there anyway of knowing which?

I would suggest 1878 is probably a very accurate guess due to the introduction of photos for the masses in this country and the fact I have other photos of relatives in this album that I do know and their photos must have been taken close to 1880.

So is the rifle/gun a Snider-Enfield rifle  then?

How do I find out about the badge on the Shako?

Leofric I am really grateful for all your help. This is much much more than I have received from anyone else. It really is much appreciated.

Regards and thanks,

Mark 

[Leofric]

Mark

What's the difference between a Service company or Depot company? This really needs answering by someone who was in the army (Senior Service myself!).  A battalion was approx 1000 men split into say 8 or ten companies. A Service company was probably part of a regular battalion, belonging for instance to the 45th Regiment and liable to be shipped off to a trouble spot being a trained up fighting unit. I would guess that a Depot company was involved in training or admin duties in say Catterick or Aldershot and so less likely to receive new equipment.

Regarding his identity of which regiment of infantry, the only way I'm afraid is by his badges, the only thing I can suggest is that the photo be scanned in high resolution (if it isn't) and placed again on this and other military sites in the hope someone will know it.
As for the gun? Well, I reckon it is a Snider-Enfield rifle. Here is a website which shows it well, and it looks just like the musket of old apart from the lack of frizen-pan.
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Britain/Snider.htm

Leofric

[Marko]

Hi Leofric,

Once again many many thanks. I have learn't  a lot tonight. I hope there maybe someone out there who can also help so I don't wear you out with all my questions. I tried to put a high resolution picture of the shako on this site but it only allows 100 KB. Maybe another try concentrating on the badge alone might help.
I am also interested in the title of the book you looked up and I will access the link you gave me regarding the "gun"

Anyway I can't thank-you enough for all your help. I can see why this site was recommended to me now!!!

Best Regards,

Mark 

[Leofric]

Marko,

The book is called the Thin Red Line (Uniforms of the British Army 1751-1914) by D.S.V. & B. K. FOSTEN. ISBN No. 1-872004-00-8 and you may find it in your local library.  Also there will be books on cap badges.

If you do get the cap badge scanned so that it clearer I recommend you also place it on:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.Military.uk.britarmy&maxrows=25&dir=prev&cur=210

where there is a boffin on all things military called Jeff. Have a look at the site and all the questions he can answer and you'll see what I mean!

Leofric

[Marko]

Leofric,
            You are the man!!! I have done exactly what you said and rescanned the shako alone and put it on the site you recommended. I will include it here too in case you or someone else can rcognise it. The photo is still not the best unfortunately.
I can't thank-you enough for all your help. I feel like I am getting somewhere now after months of trying. Thanks again.

Best Regards,

Mark