Looking for Old Villages in Wales

[Galium]

I notice that David's birthplace in 1851 is simply dittoed from the entry above. It's possible that the  enumerator misread the household schedule he was copying from (and David was not the head of this household, so probably was not the person who filled in the schedule).

The youngest child in 1851, Hannah, was born in "Clydey" (Clyde in 1861), so the family are definitely connected with this place.

1871 census shows:
Merthyr Tydfil
David Davies head 48 collier  Pembs. Clydi
Phoebe Davies wife 54 collier's wife  Carmarthenshire, Trebach [?]
Hannah Davies daur 21                          "                             "
Lizzie Davies Gdaur  11                       Glamorganshire, Merthyr

Class: RG10/ Piece: 5398/ Folio: 132/ Page: 34

[marty1226]

Hi Everyone!  Hmmm...I will answer the easiest one first.  Phoebe died 12 Feb 1883 in Beacon, Iowa, USA, age 66.  It's possible she was still in Wales in 1881.  Her son-in-law, Morgan Howells, died in a mining accident on 1 Jan 1883.  I was thinking she came over to help her daughter after that but there doesn't seem to be enough time elapsed before her own death on 12 Feb 1883.  After looking at Morgan & Rachael's records again, their 4th child, William, was born 25 May 1882.  It makes sense that Phoebe would come to the US at that time to help her daughter.  That would also still put her on the 1881 Wales census.  So - you are correct - this gives me a better time band to search in for her immigration. 

Next - Rachael was not the first child, she was the second.  The first child, Charlotte, was born about 1839.  That means marriage 2 or 3 are more likely guesses.  However, that adds 2 new locations - Cardiff & Swansea.  How do they fit with Clyde & Pembroke?

Back to the 1851 census - You are right - David's birthplace looks like the enumerator wrote ditto for Pembroke, Pembroke from the person on the line above him (Sarah Hughes, servant).  Charlotte, the oldest child, shows Pembroke, Penarth, Rachel & Esther are ditto for the same place.  The youngest child, Hannah shows a ditto under Pembroke then Clydey is written.

1861 census - David - Pembroke, Clyde.  Charlotte- Pembroke, Penarth, Rachael & Hanna - ditto for Pembroke, Penarth, and Elizabeth - Glamorgen, Merthyr Tydfil.

1871 census is new for me but it looks like it is the same family.  I need to look at the actual record but I don't think 11 year old Lizzie is the gr. daughter.  I think she is the 18 month old Elizabeth (daughter) on the 1861 census.

So - I guess part of the confusion is Penarth for Rachael (and siblings).  Is it really the one in Glamorganshire and if so, why is that not shown on the 1851 & 1861 census?  The second problem is the birthplace of David - Pembroke, Pembroke or Pembroke, Clyde??

Thanks for all you help!

Martha

[janan]

Hi Martha

Welcome to Rootschat

Lizzie is definitely listed as granddaughter in 1871 - she may have been the illegitimate daughter of Charlotte or even Rachel and thus listed as daughter in 1861 when her mother was still at home. My own g grandmother is listed variously as daughter and granddaughter on censuses, she lived with her grandmother, and in 1881 her own illegitmate son is also listed as son to the grandmother.

Jan

[osprey]

think that Penarth might be a mistranscription, and it's meant to be Penrith/Penrhydd, a neighbouring parish to Clydey

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Penrith/index.html

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/CilgerranMap.html

Interesting household in 1841 in Penrhydd HO107/1447/9 folio 22 pg 4
Benjamin Lewis 60 farmer
Rachel 70
Pheby 20
Hannah Evans 14
Charlote Davies 2

Charlote is shown as a separate household, all on her own, in the same building

Possible marriage
Pheby Lewis jun qtr 1844 Newcastle in Emlyn vol 26 pg 993 with David Davies the only other name on the page

Charlotte is in Merthyr Tydfil in 1871, unmarried, with a birth place of Penrydd RG10/5392 folio 10 pg 13.
 
editing typos

[wilcoxon]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geogdata/ngw/fulllist.htm

This may help with places. 

[marty1226]

Well - this is very interesting!  I think you are right - the birthplace is Penrith/Penrhydd not Penarth for Charlotte, Rachael & Esther.  Thanks so much!  I also think you are right in assuming that the birthplace of David is Clyde.  His daughter Hanna was born there as well in 1849. I found David Davies on the 1841 census living in St. Nicholas, Pembrokshire and working as a weaver.  I'm wondering if this is my GGG grandfather???  How do I find the church baptismal records?  Maybe I could find David & Phoebe's marriage record that way. 

Regarding Lizzie, I think she very well could have been Charlotte's illegitimate daughter.  Just looking at her birth year (1859), that is 10 years after Hanna.  I found Charlotte as a servant on the 1871 census that was mentioned in one of the previous posts.  As I said, it would be wonderful to know which church held the baptismal records!

Thanks for your help!

Martha

[marty1226]

Thanks for the link to the Gazetteer - I like to map, helps to put thing in perspective. 

Martha

[marty1226]

Meant to say like the map!   

[omega 1]

Hi Martha

Been reading your thread.

If you click onto the Pembrokeshire board you will see a thread

Need help with a place name.I was looking for a place Penaidd,which i knew did`nt sound right.It turrned out to be PENRYDD.

Penrydd has disappeared.

My 3xGreatgrandfather William David was born there.

Omega