Looking for Old Villages in Wales

[marty1226]

Hi!  I have worked on my genealogy for years and am brand new to this forum.  I need some help with old villages I found on several Wales Census records and I am a bit confused on the order of things and the proper way to write it.  Also, the census shows different birth places for the same person. 

My first question relates to the 1851 & 1861 Wales Census.  1851 shows the birthplace of my GGG grandfather as Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales.  1861 shows the birthplace for the same person as Clyde, Pembrokeshire, Wales.  Are Clyde and Pembroke the same town with a different name at a different time or are they two different towns?  Both records show his residence at the time of the census in the Parish, Town & Registration District of Merthyr Tydfil in Glamorgan.  What is the difference between a Parish, Town and Registration District?  What is the correct way to write the information?  For example, should it be written as Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales  and Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales?

My next question relates to street names on the Wales Census.  Is there any way to find out if the street is still in existence?

I appreciate any help available!

Thanks!

[NEILKE]

hi marty welcome to rootschat no doubt some one will be a long shortly to help you.
neil

[marty1226]

I hope so!  Thanks!!

[davierj]

Hi Marty, I don't think Clyde and Pembroke are the same towns.   The closest match would seem to be Clydey which is 6 miles from Newcastle Emlyn and a long way from Pembroke.   Does he appear on another census?
A parish is an ecclesiastical administrative unit usually served by a parish church.   In larger towns there may be more than one parish - it is purely a church thing but the records are invaluable in tracing families.
A town (in England and Wales) is generally larger than a village but smaller than a city.  A town usually had a charter to hold a market or fair, eg Aberystwyth's charter dates from 1277 and allowed the town to hold 2 fairs annually.   A city has Letters Patent entitling it to the name and historically was associated with the possession of a cathedral.    St Davids in Pembrokeshire is a city but is much smaller than many towns.
A Registration District is a district that administers the civil registration of births, marriages and deaths.   They were created in 1837 when the whole process of registering B,M,Ds started.
I suppose you could write an address however you wished.   Personally I would write the town or village and the county.............Pemboke, Pembrokeshire or Lampeter, Cardiganshire etc.   If you wished you could use the Welsh names..............Penfro, Sir Benfro or Llanbedr Pont Steffan, Sir Aberteifi etc.   I tend to use the county name in use at the time.   For example Cardiganshire has variously, in my lifetime, been Cardiganshire, Dyfed and Ceredigion.   All very confusing.
As far as street names go I tend to use Google Maps, but beware in Wales they may or may not use the Welsh names!!
Useful websites........Genuki  http://www.genuki.org.uk/
                                  Cyndi's List    http://cyndislist.com
                                 Welsh place names      http://domesdaymaps.com

Best of luck, Dave                                 

[davierj]

By the way you may see the term 'hundred'.    This is an old geographical division which often crosses county boundaries.   It may have been an area which could supply 100 men at arms or possibly an area of 100 houses.   Pembroke has 2 parishes - St Marys and St Michaels and is in the hundred of Castlemartin in the county of Pembrokeshire.

Dave

[bevbee]

The Ecclesiastical Parish of Clyde or Clydey or Clydau is situated to the North East of the County of Pembrokeshire adjoining the County of Carmarthenshire. There is no town or village of that name within the Parish. The Ecclesiastical Parish of Pembroke, and the town of the same name within that Parish, is situated to the South West of the County of Pembrokeshire within the estuary of the River Cleddau. There are some two hundred Parishes within the County of Pembrokeshire.
 
Reference is made to 1851 and 1861 only. What about 1841? Assuming GGG was a migrant to the Coalfields and Iron Works of Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire after that year then the 1841 Census will give his residential address and Parish and I shall be happy to see if I can identify the location. Alternatively, if I have the full name of GGG and his year of birth I will see if I can locate that way. If GGG had already left Pembrokeshire before 1841 there is little I can do.

I hope that helps.
 
Bev.

[marty1226]

Hi Dave & Bev,  Thanks for your replies & explanation!  1851 & 1861 are the only 2 census records I can say with certainty are my GGG grandfather.  His name was David Davis and there are many hits on that name but none that I can confirm.  Here are the details I have.

The 1851 census shows David Davis (age 28) & his wife Phoebe (age 34) & children.  Their daughter, Rachael, (born in Penarth, Pembrokeshire in about 1845), is the ancestor that my family descends from. The address on the census is Penydarrow, Merthyr Tydfil and David's place of birth is Pembroke, Pembrokeshire. (about 1823) He was a miner.  Phoebe was born in St. Clare, Carmarthenshire.  (about 1817)

The 1861 census shows David Davies but it is definitely the same person.  His place of birth is shown as Clyde, Pembrokeshire in about 1822.  He was an iron miner.  Phebe (spelled wrong) was born about 1817 in St. Clare, Carmarthenshire.  Daughter Rachael was born in Penarth, Pembrokeshire in about 1845.  Census address is High St. in Merthyr Tydfil.

In 1870 Rachael married Morgan Howells (born about 1845 in Cilybebyll, Glamorganshire) & immigrated to Beacon, Iowa, USA.  I have these records.  They are both buried there.  Her mother, Phoebe is also buried there but I've never found when she immigrated to the US and I've never found a death record of her husband, David, in Wales. 

So - if I'd love to find out David's real birthplace and find out the parish where baptismal/marriage/death records might be for David, Phoebe or Rachael.  Phoebe might be impossible to find because I do not know her maiden name.  I also have a few questions on the Howells side of my family but I will hold on those for now - otherwise it may get too confusing!

I hope this post wasn't too long!  Thanks for any help you can offer!

Martha

[davierj]

Hi Martha,

You say daughter Rachel was born in Penarth, Pembrokeshire.   I don't think there is a Penarth in Pembrokeshire but I am only too willing to stand corrected.   There is however a Penarth, Glamorganshire on the coast not far from Cardiff.
You have indicated that David's surname could be spelt either Davis or the Welsh form Davies.   There are a number of marriages on freeBMD for the appropriate period, with either spelling, each with the possibility of a Phoebe as the bride.
1.   David Davis married 1842 June qtr, Merthyr Tydfil district, vol 26, page 634....there is a Phoebe Evans on the same page
2.   David Davies married 1838 Dec qtr, Cardiff district, vol 26, page 562.....there is a Phoebe Evans on the same page
3.   David Davies married 1839 Dec qtr, Swansea dist, vol 26, page 685....there is a Phoebe Evans on the same page.
4.   David Davies married 1845 Dec qtr, Merthyr Tydfil dist, vol 26, page 631....There is a Phoebe Thomas on the same page.

Was Rachel the first child?   If she was and you are sure of the spelling of David's surname I'd be tempted to favour 1. above.   There is however a 3 out of 4 chance Phoebe's surname was Evans.   Unfortunately the only sure way would be to buy a marriage certificate.   There is also no guarantee that 3 out of 4 David Davi(e)s actually married a woman called Phoebe as there are other women on the same pages also.

1881 census shows......RG11 5368/92/9
14 Llotrog, Llanrhidian higher, Glamorganshire
Pheby Davies, head, widow, female, 66, born St Clares Carmarthenshire, dressmaker.

Hope this helps, Dave

[davierj]

I had a thought, a rare moment.   You say Phoebe emigrated to the USA, how old was she when she died?   If was younger than 66 then that's not her in 1881.   If she was older, then that may possibly give you a time band within which she left Wales.

Dave