Author Topic: Location of PG70, Monturano  (Read 24503 times)

Offline Anydogsbody

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Location of PG70, Monturano
« on: Friday 05 November 10 00:22 GMT (UK) »
My father was taken prisoner at Tobruk and ended up in PG70 near Fermo in Italy. Can anybody come up with an exact location for that camp? I have seen a suggestion that it was at 43.14N,13.41E but that gives a location which is more than 40 Km west of where I would expect it to be. Does anything of the camp exist today?

My father thought he was near Lucca, which is several hundred kilometres away, yet his record shows him to have been at PG 70 (not PG 60 Colle Compito, Nr Lucca) and my mother remembers writing to him at PG70. Can anyone come up with a reason for that? Were prisoners given incorrect information about where they were?

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Offline ADM199

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #1 on: Friday 05 November 10 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Official position given is 43:14N - 13:41E

PG 70; Fermo West of Porto St Giorgio on East Coast.
New buildings; Textile Works near Railway Line in two Sections.
Nearest Airfield Macerata.

Camp was opened 19th August 1942 and on the 15th Nov 537 Prisoners arrived from PG 60 followed the next day by 538 more.
PG60 was then closed.

Information comes from Intelligence Report of 30/6/1943. At this time 6980 POW were in the camp. Almost 100% British.
Prisoners of War. North Africa,Italy and Germany

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Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #2 on: Friday 05 November 10 14:07 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if he was one of the 500 or so that were brought in from PG60. I had the impression though that he thought the bulk of his captivity, until Italy capitulated, was spent nearer Lucca and not just the first few months. After the capitulation he was moved to Stalag XIB at Fallingbostel.

I'm still curious about the name Monturano and the location of the camp. Monte Urano, from which I presume the camp took its name, is 40Km east by road and 20Km east across country from the Lat/Long quoted in the intelligence report. The coordinates given are of a point between San Lorenzo and Il Castelluccio

Offline ADM199

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 07 November 10 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Checked at Kew on Saturday and he doesn't seem to have made a report when Liberated.

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Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 09 November 10 08:52 GMT (UK) »
That's a pity but thanks for trying.

Offline ADM199

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 November 10 16:47 GMT (UK) »
Not a problem. I had a list of four to check but found none.

The other three were POW at Terezin concentration camp so in their case the reason for the missing report is obvious.

There were lists of some Liberation Reports that were open several years ago in WO 208.
Some of them are missing from the WO 344 Files which should contain all Reports that were made.!!
Lost, or were transfered to another department.
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Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 November 10 20:50 GMT (UK) »
Still can't make sense of that set of coordinates for the camp. I hesitate to suggest that the intelligence is wrong but the position given doesn't tally with any descriptions or pictures I have seen relating to PG70, it's far too far west and in open country.

I have pasted the link to the location below which should, if it works at all, open a page in Google Earth at the coordinates given. The green arrow indicates the spot; I think you'll see what I mean.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=43.14+13.41&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=10.602115,42.407227&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16

Offline ADM199

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 11 November 10 13:54 GMT (UK) »
Mistakes can obviously be made but Camps were not usually that close to a Town where P.O.W. could escape and disappear.
There are some Camps such as PG 57 are given made up names. Gruppignano was just an area of open countryside and the Camp on a bend in the road.
Monturano was probably just the same.
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Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 11 November 10 14:44 GMT (UK) »
I'm trying to clarify this because, as far as I can gather, PG 70 Monturano was located in factory premises which may still be standing; hence the confusion. They are/were a flax or leather processing facility. I have read references to individuals visiting the former camp within the last few years and being able to locate exactly where they were housed on the site. That simply doesn't fit with the coordinates because clearly from the satellite image there's nothing there. I'm hoping to visit the former camp next year and would like to be sure that I have the location correct.

Ken de Souza wrote a book called "Escape from Ascoli" about his escape from PG70 and I have been able to locate a copy which hopefully may shed some light on things. I don't know why he chose to refer to it as Ascoli ( the website also mentions Fermo)but his son's website makes it clear that they were able to visit the camp in Monte Urano and that the buildings were still there.

If you read this you'll see what I mean:

http://www.iandesouza.de/index.php?kat=64