Author Topic: Groom family in South Africa  (Read 13997 times)

Offline pampoen

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #9 on: Monday 15 November 10 06:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Toni and Jorose thank you so much for your help so far. I am certain the Constance you refer to is the one who is my grandmother.The reason for this is that Constances first son was named William Reginald Hessett Austin.All Austins were named William my brothers second name and Hessett is obviously named after his uncle Charles Lancelot.

Will check the SA archives, have someone who can get copies of the records.

Once again many thanks for your help.

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline jorose

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #10 on: Monday 15 November 10 11:43 GMT (UK) »
I can see a possiblity for the father Henry/Harry but can't find a marriage to a Fanny yet:
1871 census, 6 Mansfield Villas, Hampstead (RG 10/192 58/24)
Robt Groom, 60, merchant, b. Hessett, Suffolk
Martha Eliz, 58, wife, b. Jamaica West Indies
Henry E, 22, son, clerk to merchant, b. Clerkenwell
Chas, 21, son, clerk to merchant, b. Clerkenwell

By 1881 Robert is widowed (still living in Hampstead), Henry is nowhere to be found (Charles seems to have married a Clara).

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html shows Henry Edward Groom as christened in Pancras son of Robert and Martha, and this shows a man by the same name was working as a ship broker in 1877 which would explain having children in Havre and Brussels (not to mention that the bankruptcy proceedings might be a reason for heading to Europe circa 1877/8)
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/24511/pages/5614
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/24443/pages/2597
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/24569/pages/2421

There is another christened on the pilotsearch site for a child Beatrice Elizabeth Groom chrs. 1886 parents Henry Edward and Frances Elizabeth who might be another sibling (freebmd shows this child b. and d. in Blean district).
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Offline pampoen

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 12:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jorose thanks for the info so far, sifting through it I have made up a list of the family as follows.

1871 Census:
6 Mansfield Villas, Hampstead (RG 10/192 58/24)

Robert Groom, 60, merchant, b. Hessett, Suffolk in 1811
Martha Elizabeth, 58, wife, b. Jamaica West Indies in 1813
Henry E, 22, son, clerk to merchant, b. Clerkenwell in 1849
Chas, 21, son, clerk to merchant, b. Clerkenwell in 1850

Henry E married to Fanny have the following children.
Gertrude M Groom   16 scholar b. London                        (1875)
Mabel E Groom 14 do. b. do.                                            (1877)
Maud M Groom   13 do. b. France Havre BS                      (1878)
Constance H Groom   11 do. b. do. BS                              (1879)
Claud A Groom   9 do. b. Brussels BS                                (1882)
Charles E Groom   8 do. b. Kent ? Broad.or Bruoghton ?   (1883)
Leon  J Groom   7 do. b. do.                                               (1884)
(What is meant b do. b. do. above as well as BS????)

C. A. and a C. L. heading to SA in 1906 of the right age to be the boys Claud Albert and Charles Lancelot.  In 1892 there's also an H. E. (the father?) with an Elizabeth (possibly second wife), and two of the girls shown on the 1891-- "Gertrude M" and "Mabel E". SA archives show an entry for Charles Lancelot Hessett Groom (wife Adeline Rose) (think this is his estate notice from 1958), so other members of this family did go to SA.

Christening in 1892 for "Constance Harriet Groom", parents Harry and Fanny, in Herne, Kent. She probably wasn't born 1892 - this is one of a set of baptisms presumably late baptisms for the whole family.Is this possible as the above says HE Groom sailed for South Africa in 1892!!!!

I am convinced this is the correct family for the following reasons.

Constance and her husband William Austin had 5 children, one of them was my father, however the first son was named William Reginald Hessett Austin.Secondly he was involved in shipping all his life, now I see where he got his taste for this type of work from.Other Iinformation :
•   Managing Director Cayzer, Irvine South Africa (Proprietary) Limited.
•   Director African Associated Agency and Stevedoring (Proprietary) Limited.
•    Clan Line South Africa (Proprietary) Limited.
•   Standard Caterers (Proprietary) Limited.
•    Joined Union  Castle Company, 1926, and stationed in various parts of South Africa.
•   During war was Port Representative of British Ministry of War Transport at Mombasa.
•   Appointed agent Union Castle Company, Mombasa 1946 and Cape Town 1951.
•   Appointed Deputy Manager for South and East Africa on 01 January 1954 and General Manager on 01 January 1959.
•    President Mombasa Chamber of Commence and Agriculture 1948 and 1949.
•    Chairman Inter-Territorial Harbours Committee of the Transport Advisory Council 1948-50.
•    Chairman Mombasa Missions to Seamen 1949-50.
•    Member of Executive Committee East Africa Tourists Travel Association 1948-50.
•    Norwegian Consul for Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika and Zanzibar from 1946 to 1951.
•    Member Cape Town Harbour Advisory Board and Clubs: City, Civil Service, Master Mariners' Club, Cape Town, Western Province Cricket and Royal Cape Golf, Western Province Sports Recreational Swimming.
•    Address: care of Union Castle Company, Cape Town.

Please have look at the family tree and see if I have it correctly set out.

Regards Derek

Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline jorose

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 14:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Derek,

Yes, I think you have it pretty much right - there was possibly another child Beatrice Elizabeth b. d. 1886 and her mother is given as "Frances Elizabeth" - so the 1892 ship list might be Fanny/Frances but the age is wrong if she was also the mother of Gertrude (then again so is the age of H. E.).

"do" = "ditto" (e.g. same as person above them on the census).
"BS" means "British Subject" - children born abroad to fathers who were British Subjects themselves received the same status (for women at this time their citizenship status was that of their father and then subsequently of their husband).

You could try contacting the Le Havre municipal archives (there is an email here), on the off-chance that Constance's birth is in fact in their records (they may come back and say they charge for research or won't do it but it's worth a shot). I'm assuming that they hold old tables décennales and so should be able to check reasonably quickly.
http://archives.ville-lehavre.fr/delia-CMS/archives/site/article_id-/sstopic_id-/topic_id-/topic_parent_id-762/
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 16:41 GMT (UK) »
Derek you are missing some children of Robert & Martha Elizabeth

   Robert Groom   christened 7 Sep 1843 s/o    Robert Groom, &
Martha Elizabeth Groom    @ St Pancras Old St Pancras   Camden   
address 42 Frederick Street, Croydon Road
fathers  occ. Agent

   William Williams Groom   chr. 29 Jul 1845 s/o   Robert Groom,
Martha Elizabeth Groom   @ St Pancras   Camden   
address middleton square
fathers ooc. tin plate worker

   Martha Elizabeth Groom    chr. 29 Jul 1847   d/o Robert Groom,
Martha Elizabeth Groom   @ St Pancras   Camden   
address Middleton Square
fatehrs occ. tinplate worker

   Henry Edward Groom   chr. 4 Oct 1848   s/o Robert Groom,
Martha Elizabeth Groom    @ St Pancras   Camden
of Middleton Square
fathers occ. Gentleman

Charles Groom s/o Robert & Martha born Nov 30 1849 christened 18 May 1873
address 2 Liquor Pond Street !!!
occ. tin plate worker

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 16:49 GMT (UK) »
marriage April 7th 1842 by licence in St Pancras
Robert Groom / full age / bachelor / merchants clerk / st. pancras / Wm Groom / Dead
Martha Elizabeth Williams / full age / spinster / / newington / C? W Williams / Dead
both signed
witnesses also signed Henry Blatch & Harriett Williams 
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 18:30 GMT (UK) »
some more names  to add to your family

when born ? 9th Sept 1879
name Martha Hessett (Groom)
female
name and maiden surname of mother : Mary Tobin (Jolin?)
rank or profession of father: agent
signature description and residence of informant : William Williams groom, agent, bracebridge
when registered : october 7th 1879
name of accoucher : james Bridgland M.D.
sig. of registrar : James Boyland
Birth County:   Muskoka District (Ontario)
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 18:35 GMT (UK) »
and Williams death

   William Williams Groom
male
Death Date:   2 Mar 1896
Death Location:   Middlesex Ontario
Age:   about  49 [sic]
 Birth Location:   London, England
occupation : merchant
cause of death Paresis ? ..... 4 years
name of physician : asylum staff
registered May 18th 1896 by A E Buchanan M.D. London lp
religion - Roman Catholic

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 18:41 GMT (UK) »
i'm sure more can be found out about William in Ontario, Ontario records online are usually pretty good, shout if you need help

~~~

Martha Elizabeth Groom ( the daughter) married Sept 13 1870 at the parish church of Hampstead :

JOhn Ronaldson Leyell / full age / bachelor / .... in ........ service (sorry its hard to make out!) Hampstead / james Leyell / /
Martha Elizabeth Groom/ full age/ spinster / / Hampstead / Robert Groom / /
both signed as did the witnesses Edward Graham williams & Marius Nivierce ???
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive