Thomas Sands

[tonysands64]

Hi, Iam trying to find any information about my Great Great Great grandfather. ( birth records / parents etc)
According to the 1851 England census he was born in Quebec in 1826 but it states his nationality as Brit/American. In later censuses his nationality is Canadian.
Ive tried searching various sites, but alot of the information is in French.
He was married to Mary Ann ( possibly Cairns) born in Ireland and live most of his life in Braford West yorkshire UK. His trade was a woolcomber.
Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Tony

[KarenM]

Hi Tony,

Welcome to rootschat!


Did Thomas have any siblings that may have been born in Canada as well?

Karen

[polarbear]

Hello and a warm welcome to RootsChat  .

There doesn't appear to be an obvious baptism for Thomas in the records.

Do you have the names of his parents?

Polarbear

[tonysands64]

Hi Karen / Polarbear,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Thats all the information i have, except on ancestry .com a member contacted me and said his father could be  Thomas Sands born 1767 in Williams burg VA and mother could be Mary Gilliat.

Can be very fustrating this family tree stuff.........

Thanks for all your help.

Tony

[polarbear]

Have you obtained the birth certificate of any of their children to identify the mother's maiden name?

If Mary Ann was b. in Ireland they may have married there. Her indication of 'Coal Island' in the 1891 Census might be a place to start (assuming I have found thr correct couple?). But knowing Mary Ann's maiden name for searching FreeBMD would be an easier place to search for a marriage to begin with.

If Thomas was b. in Quebec there is a good chance his father was in the military. It looks like findmypast has the Regimental BMD indices  http://www.findmypast.co.uk/home.jsp  (They have a free trial offer - just remember to cancel prior to its expiary b/c if their offer is like the one on Ance***ry they will take a full sub payment if you don't. My sub is currently lapsed so I can't look for you) and you can order records from the GRO ... the Regimental BMDs date back to 1761  http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faqs-overseas.asp

Also, in the 1891 Census mentioned above Thomas is Thomas J .... do you know what the J is for?

Have you found Thomas on the 1841 Census? Can you give the reference if you have ?

Polarbear

[tonysands64]

Hi Polarbear,

Im waiting for the birth cert for one of his kids, also called thomas. The 1951 census is the only record i have of him so far. I have checked the regimental births on find my past and he is not there.

I have found a ref to his marriage in 1850 in dewsbury, but it doesnt give spouse details, so i have ordered a copy of that also.

No idea what the J stands for.

On ancestry other member trees say that Mary Anns surname was Cairns, but cant be certain, untill i get the marriage cert.

Thanks for the help anyway.

Tony

[cosmac]

I can't find an 1851 English census for Thomas Sands referring to place of birth as Quebec.

1851 Horton Yorkshire lodging is Thos Sands, woolcomber, b. 1826 Ireland
HO107 2310 241 8

1861 Preston Lancashire R69 3135 106 59
Thomas Sands, 1826 b. Ire., cotton factory worker with
Mary Ann, b. 1832 Ireland and children
Richard b. 1849 Wigan Lancashire, William b. 1853 Bradford, Yorkshire, Isabella b. 1855 Preston, Lancashire, James b. 1857 Preston, Sarah b. 1859 Preston.

1871 Horton, Bradford,  RG10 4477 12 18
Thomas Sands b. 1826 Quebec, North America, engine man at sawmill
Mary Ann, b. 1833 Bradford and children William b. 1854 Bradford, Isabella b. 1856 Bradford, Sarah b. 1860 Preston, Thomas b. 1862 Preston, Lettitia b. 1866 Stanningley, Wr Leeds, Mary b. 1868 Stanningley Wr Leeds, Joseph b. 1870 Bradford

1881 Bradford, Yorkshire  RG11 4439 136 12
Thomas Sands, b. 1825 America (Brit), engine tender
Mary Ann b. 1833 Bradford and children
James b. 1858, b. Preston, woolcomber, Thomas b. 1862, Preston, woolcomber, Letticia b. Stanningley, worsted spinner, Mary Ann b. 1865 b. Stanningley, worsted spinner, Elizabeth b. 1871 Bradford, Edwin b. 1875 Bradford

Debbie

[cosmac]

The 1891 census was referred to also Bradford Yorkshire RG12 3636 48 39
Thomas Sands b. Quebec, Canada and Mary A. b. Coal Island, Ireland.
Son Edwin is living at home and also present is daughter Sarah now married to William Riddough with 3 children.

1901 census Bradford RG13 4160 2541
William Riddough and wife Sarah with children Nora, William, John, Bertha, and Clara.  Father-in-law Thomas Sands, 74, widower, b. Ireland is living with them.

Possible death for Mary Ann Sands Mar 1896 @ 61 Bradford, Y. 9b 7.

Free BMD doesn't seem to link a marriage in England between a Sands and Cairns.  Around 1850 there is a Mary Ann Earnshaw.  If your birth certificate for Thomas doesn't give you the information you need you might try one for Edwin - not as popular a name and his birth registration is most likely
Jun 1874 Bradford, Y 9b 118.

The census records I gave seem to link to each other but are they your family....??

Debbie

[tonysands64]

Hi Debbie,

Thanks for all your help. The ref to 1851 census was a typo, should of been 1861.

The rest of the census history is what i have also. Like you im abit confused with the ref to canada in some census and ireland in another, im pretty sure it must be the same person as the children names and years of birthall match, would be too much of a coincidence otherwise, but i may be wrong.

Im on an oil rig at the moment, so wont be able to look at the marriage certs untill i get home.
hopefully this will throw some light on things.

I was thinking he may of gone from canada to ireland then to england, but no records of him on any ships lists.

At a bit of a dead end at the minute untill i get the certs i ordered.

When get in touch once i get home around the 4th Dec.

Thanks again for your help.

Tony