Nathaniel Collins b.1818 Amroth, Pembs.

[samthecat]

The parish church record for my above descendant states that he was son of Thomas Collins and Martha Morris, who were both resident in Amroth Castle (owned by Capt. Ackland) at the time. I am wondering if anyone can recommend an historian who would have an in-depth knowledge of people and life in Amroth between 1818 and 1841? I am also interested in the piece of land, close to Amroth Castle, which was known as Nathaniel's Meadow (mentioned in Roscoe Howells book 'A Brief History of Amroth'), and why it was so named?
 

[Orielbenfro]

Whilst I have no wish to dispute your research, it may be wise for you to consider that there is no baptism shown for a Nathaniel Collins in the Amroth Parish Registers of 1815 to 1825. Dates of Birth are very rare in parish registers, but if you can supply baptism date I am willing to carry out further investigation to assist and confirm.

The same goes for the mrge, I have been unable to find any reference to the mrge of a Thomas Collins to Martha Morris 1790 to 1818, I have noted a mrge of Thomas Philipp to a Martha Morris at St Issells in 1797.

The above said I am not quite sure what history you expect to find on a piece of land. The two locations that further reference may be found to the ground you speak of are the L.T.A.’s circa 1785 to circa 1833 and the apportionments of circa 1841.

I believe its proper title is ‘Hean Castle’ Amroth, which is now a caravan park a location I pass at least once every week.

Interestingly a Thomas Morris is a witness to the will of George Collins of 1827.
Also I note from my database of all names in all wills proven for the parish of St Issells for the period 1600 to 1858, that a Martha Collins is noted as daughter of David Parcell in his will reference nbr 1838/062 but alas she is the wife of William Collins.

William Collins had mrd Martha Parcell at St Issells 20 Nov 1827.

Of course I am well prepared to stand corrected, in the face of the correct parish entries, but that evidence alludes me at present.

Rgds
Orielbenfro

[Orielbenfro]

BINGO ~ Have I solved half the problem.
I have now confirmed from 2 sources that a Nathaniel MORRIS was baptised at Amroth 24 May 1818. It would seem very lightly, but need to check orginial registers that he was the natural child of Martha Morris reputed father being Thomas Collins, hence the reason for no mrge.
Rgds
Orielbenfro

[omega 1]

Hi

According to a book i have Hean Castle was at St Issells

omega

[Orielbenfro]

According to a book i have Hean Castle was at St Issells

Quite right, it was late, I was in a rush, and I do get lost without a Sat Nav.

Its Amroth Castle I pass every week not Hean Castle.

Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[samthecat]

The actual wording on the christening record is 'Nathaniel, reputed son of Thomas Collins by Martha Morris'.  Thomas is described as Bachelor and Martha as Spinster. The IGI record for this entry states 'Nathaniel Morris or Collins'.  I do not know whether both parents would have to be present at their child's christening.  What would happen if the mother had died, for instance? 

[Orielbenfro]

'Nathaniel, reputed son of Thomas Collins by Martha Morris'.  Thomas is described as Bachelor and Martha as Spinster.   

The identified reputed father then allows the Parish to demand money for the upkeep of the child so that mother and child did not fall back on parish relief.
There is no burial post 1818 for a Martha Morris so that does not come into the problem, however if it did, then the parish would go to Thomas Collins for payment of a 'wet nurse' for the child once again ensuring that the family did not fall back on parish relief.
More important if the parish can prove that mother and by extension child are not of the parish they can be forced back to their original parish and returned there by the parish constable, who would be paid for his time and trouble.
If Thomas Collins was of another parish then Amroth Parish could go to that parish for payment of upkeep of Martha and child. They are few and far between these days but one can sometimes find records called "B++++dry Records"
Of the examples we have in our own research I have never yet found one of these records but am assured they do exist for some.
Just because Nathanial was baptised in the parish does not make Martha of that parish. It was common for young ladies to be “sent away”, sometimes great distance and not only in the county for their confinement.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[samthecat]

Thank you for your help over this one - the Parish system seems in many ways very sensible and caring.  Would you happen to know if an inventory of staff or something similar exists for Amroth Castle - if Martha and Thomas were both resident there in 1818, I am wondering if records similar to a census would be in existence for the castle?  I am wondering if the Pembroke Records Office might be a sensible place to try in the first place.  Or the National Library of Wales.  Also, parish school records for Amroth/St Issells area.  I am hoping to get to Amroth next week - weather permitting - so might get a chance to find something out.

[Crunwere]

They are few and far between these days but one can sometimes find records called "B++++dry Records".  Of the examples we have in our own research I have never yet found one of these records but am assured they do exist for some.

Sorry no info on Amroth Castle but can confirm there are these B******* Bonds in Haverfordwest R.O.  Not sure how comprehensive they are but found some 20th century ones (around 1930s) - even one relating to my grt uncle!!

Re Amroth Castle - not sure if they would have listed servants anywhere - but they might hold info on the family who lived there during that time - probably at Haverfordwest.

The book 'Place Names of Pembrokeshire' by B D Charles may have reference to the Nathanial's Meadow under Amroth parish - otherwise it should be listed on the tithe map and schedule (showing owner and occupier) as Orielbenfo stated - as would the Land Tax Lists - also held at Haverfordwest.