James Howe, and son? Joseph Howe

[tewilso]

On MyHeritage, I’ve found two descendants of 2nd Viscount Howe. Documented trees are available. You may wish to test at MH with these names for matches, and report your results here:

A “Jane Dubsky” in Australia, descends from Thomas Howe, and “Marion Headrick” from Canada, descends from his brother, Gen. William Howe. These are both sons of the 2nd Viscount Emanuel Scrope Howe, governor of Barbados. Joseph may have been their undocumented brother.

I’ve not had any luck myself among select American Howe cousins.

[tewilso]

I have now found evidence of a family link of Joseph Howe to the English Viscount Howe family.

The DNA company, MyHeritage, to which Earl Frederick Howe had uploaded his DNA test kit results, has just repaired their "Smart Match" search filter (it had never been functional, but I had no way of knowing this) for his site. As a result, for the first time, as site manager, I have found 15 DNA matches with him that include Joseph Howe descendants (Smart Match extracts from all DNA matches, those that must include family tree members in common). The Earl's default family tree is one that I created and uploaded based upon Joseph's pedigree and presumed English Howe ancestors.
 
Among the 15 DNA Smart Matches with him, there are numerous descendants of Joseph Howe’s daughters, i.e., (1) one descendant of Rebecca Howe Day, (2) one descendant of Ann Howe Paris/Pearis, (3) three descendants of Elizabeth Howe Hoge. I

In addition, I find one descendant of Prince Rupert that is consistent with the Earl's pedigree.
 
Now, it could be that the DNA Smart Matches result from other common ancestors of Earl Howe, but I think it unlikely. Among the 15 matches, there are, however, in my tree, some that don’t, to my knowledge, descend from Joseph.

[tewilso]

Details thus far:

I believe we now have strong evidence of a genetic link between Joseph Howe and the English Viscount Howe family. This week, MyHeritage technical support fixed an error in their “Smart Match” filter for DNA matches. Smart Matches finds all DNA matches that have matching family tree members. I used it for the first time with Frederick Howe’s MyHeritage site along with a family tree I created that includes many of Joseph’s descendants along with links to both 2nd Viscount Howe and James Howe. 

Results: I have found 6 matches (out of 8205 overall DNA matches in MyHeritage to Frederick) between Frederick and descendants of each of Joseph Howe’s three daughters (why no sons??). My notes (I await replies from them).

Frederick has 8205 DNA matches, I found 15 such “Smart Matches” with at least 6 that seem to descend from Joseph Howe

(1) Wendy Moyle of Australia has a Moses Howe Hoge in her tree (p. 309 “Listen to the Mockingbird” (LTM), shows MHH was b1816, married Harriet Evans). Moses HH was 8th son of John Hoge (p. 308 LTM), John Hoge was 3rd son of Elizabeth Howe Hoge, daughter of Joseph Howe). Wendy Moyle matches Frederick Howe at 9.7 cM.

(2) James Holland matches Frederick at 9.2 cM. He lists in his tree Sarah Hoge, descendant of Elizabeth Howe Hoge. Sarah Hoge is #28 (Listen to the Mockingbird, p. 307) under #1 Elizabeth Howe Hoge, 8th daughter of #2 Joseph Hoge (2nd son of James Mayo Hoge and Elizabeth Howe. Sarah Hoge married J. R. Wheeler, Walker Co, GA.

(3) Steven Alan Bartlett matches Frederick at 11.4 cM and has a Nancy Stafford in his tree. Sarah Hoge, 6th child of JMHoge and EHHoge, b1780, d1842) married James Stafford (b1778, d1855, Carlisle, OH). Nancy Stafford was James Stafford’s mother.

(4) Matthew McMahon matches Frederick at 10.1 cM and descends from Ann “Polly” Howe Pearis, through her son Richard George Paris, b1789, NC, d1744, Clinton, IN).

(5) Sharon Lee Reynolds (manages by Bruce Maxwell) through William Sanford Day, son of Allen Taylor Day, b1796, p 288 LTM, son of Rebecca Howe and John Day. She matches Frederick Howe at 9 cM

(6) Kristen Chipley matches Frederick at 8.1 cM: She lists Hannah Alford in her tree. Hannah Alford (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Alford-397 ) was the grand-daughter of Eleanor Hoge and John Alford. Eleanor Hoge was the daughter of Elizabeth Howe and James Mayo Hoge. Elizabeth Howe was the daughter of Joseph Howe

[codyl]

Hey guys! I've been following this page for some months now and wanted to touch base with a little update from the Rt. Hon. Earl Howe. But first, a little background. I also descend from Joseph Howe through his daughter Ann "Polly" Howe. My grandmother, from whom I get my descent from Joseph,  and I have taken AncestryDNA tests and have many matches who are also descendants of Joseph. So if you want to compare results or see how much we match by, feel free to message me. Anyway, I had recently written to the current Earl Howe asking if there was any records on Joseph that he had knowledge of and also asked if Joseph could have been an undocumented brother or cousin of the 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts due to the new genetic results from MyHeritage. The current Lord Howe was very friendly as he responded to the question of Joseph being an undocumented brother by saying that he doesn't dismiss the idea out of hand. But he further informs me that there are problems with the possibility of Joseph being an undocumented brother. The first problem is that there is a complete absence of any documentary (or other) evidence that Joseph was born in England and that he was a son of the 2nd Viscount. He also informs me that the Howe family at that time was very close and that it doesn't seem likely that all records of Joseph being a member of that family would have disappeared or been expunged. The current Lord Howe also provided me with a list of the children of the 2nd Viscount and his wife, the 2nd Viscountess where there are six sons and four daughters (which the number of sons and daughters in this list are exact in many verified sources). The list is as follows: Scrope (born 1720- died 1728) Caroline (1722-1814) Charlotte (1723- 1787) George Augustus (1724-1758) Richard (1726-1799) John (born 17??-1731) William (1729-1814) Thomas (1731-1771) Juliana (1732-1803) Mary (1733/4-1819). Also, he sates that there is another problem regarding Joseph being a brother and born in 1720 (1720 is one alternative date many sources have Joesph being born in) before George Augustus (the eldest male child) because then the Viscount title would have gone straight to Joseph instead of George when their father died in 1735. The other issue that was brought up in the letter was that there are sources from Joseph's descendants and in the Book "The Family of Hoge" which state Joseph coming on one of his two trip to America around 1737 in which case Joseph would have been a child if he were born in the years after George Augustus, which also doesn't seem likely because if Joseph was born in the other alternative date in 1729 he still would have been a child around 1737. Also on that note, the "family tradition" sources and the book "The Family of Hoge" state that Joseph "ran away from home to join his brother who was an officer in the British Army" around the same time of his first trip, to which Lord Howe also states that George Augustus was not an officer until the 1750s. Furthermore, Lord Howe also states that a professor of genetics informed him that it is impossible to come to any "firm" conclusions because genes become diluted by 50% every generation. With all that being said, is it still possible that Joseph could have been a son of the 2nd Viscount or even a first or second cousin of the 3rd, 4th and 5th Viscounts? Because now I am very lost as to what Joseph's parentage could be due to the issues presented above and the contradictory matching DNA evidence between Joseph's descendants and the current Earl Howe's.   

[tewilso]

Yes, there are major difficulties in concluding that Joseph Howe was a brother of the 3-5 Viscount Howe’s, as you say the Earl has noted. Perhaps the two matches that I’ve found stem from another line besides the Howe’s. Perhaps it is only by coincidence these two people match the Earl Howe, and also descend from Joseph Howe? There are the many generations involved, and also the possibility that the algorithm used by MyHeritage to identify the matches is faulty. The Earl Howe however will soon be joining Ancestry, and then we hope to see if there are other matches which might shed further light, pro or con, on the parentage of Joseph Howe.

[codyl]

Thomas, I’m so sorry but for some reason it says “I’m not allowed to send personal messages.” But since you can, if you message me your email I can email you and we can continue communication that way.

[BumbleB]

codyl - welcome to RootsChat.  The only reason you are not allowed to send personal messages is that you may not have made enough posts.  If you answer this  thread again then you should definitely be able to send a message. 

[melcart1]

I'm wondering what the current status is for the DNA matches. I descend from Rebecca Howe Day. i had my DNA done through 23andme and might be able to upload it, if it would help. I am SO curious about whether we can link our Joseph to James Howe.

[tewilso]

Thank you.

Current status: Two verified descendants of a Joseph Howe match the Earl Howe on MyHeritage.

Here, I’ve used the SmartMatch filter (with a tree I’ve built that links many of Joseph’s progeny to Joseph, then up and over, and back down, to the Earl.  I’ve artificially included Emanuel Scrope Howe, 2nd Viscount, as Joseph’s father. I will also soon, add in James Howe (1704, 1728) as an alternative father.

One person who matched the Earl descends from Joseph’s daughter Anne Howe Pearis/Paris, and one descends from his daughter, Elizabeth Howe Hoge. Possibly a 3rd, also from Anne Howe, pending tree verification (not so optimistic). A few other mildly promising ones have not responded to my messages.

The Earl Frederick Howe will also be on Ancestry soon as well. I hope to use Thru-Lines featur of Ancestry to advantage.

Regards,

Thomas