looking for grandparents

[Patandjohnuk]

Hi, wonder if anyone can help... been looking for information on my mothers father, she never knew him and I found his name on his vault birth certificate. He was William Frederick Robertson-Atherton. I seem to remember family mentioning some time ago he was born in England. Other than that no-one would tell anymore, and they have since passed away.   He married my mothers mother in Nairobi on the 3 May 1920(he was 28yrs old which would make his date of birth around 1892) and his father who was a witness was also William Robertson-Atherton listed as Master Mariner. My grandmother was Alma Jeane Fitzpatrick Howard,(she was 23yrs old at the time of their marriage) her father who witnessed the marriage was listed as Gentleman, Sir William Fitzpatrick Howard. She since got divorced in 1925 and on her 2nd marriage certificate it said she was born in Tasmania. I would really like to know about my grandparents as it was always kept a secret from my mother and her 5 daughters. please help me  someone.   
 

[t mo]

i,ve been intrigued by your post all week and have been back and forth doing some searching in eng bmd,s census records also tried tasmanian records using the name search both for robertson-atherton & fitzpatrick-howard and have come up empty handed each time so far i can,t find a thing on any body anywhere am i missing something only i,m at a complete loss as to where to look next is there anything more you know however insignificant it may be to help only i don,t like being beaten but this looks like it hasin whatever records you,ve found do both families use the double barrelled surnames all the time or are they using just the second part ie atherton and howard only i,ve tried splitting the names upand i do get results with robertson  and with howard but not knowing more about where the family could have come from makes it impossible to pin anything to them  .
best wishes
trevor

[Patandjohnuk]

Hello Trevor,  Its exactly what has happened to me, cant find anything. Except of course the marriage certificate in Nairobi. I also have record of the divorce and they used both names as on the marriage certificate. My mothers  birth certificate has her name as Eileen Marie Terese Atherton.  Her mother remarried Herbert Roberts, there was a rumour that he was William Fredericks brother ?? Herbert was born in 1892, so not sure of that. I havent checked on Herberts family yet, thinking about it maybe it has some answers??  My mothers  half brother who was born in the second marriage, seems to think he was the brother!!  Herbert was born in Toxteth Park, Liverpool, on 8 February, 1892, he was also a master mariner, I have his old passport.... now I wonder if he had a twin, unless the age was not recorded correctly??? as according to the marriage certificate in 1920 he was listed as 28 years old(1892?). But then why cant we find anything on the Fitzpatrick Howard side .. i have looked at the passenger lists as well.  Apparently Alma Jeane went back to Tasmania by ship with my mother and arrived back in Durban a short time later, it must of been between 1922 and 1925.  my mother was born on 27 November, 1922. thank you for helping.  I have been searching for quite a few years now, I have to solve this mystery no matter how bad it may be. (sorry about going on a bit!)

[Patandjohnuk]

Hi Trevor again,  still wracking my brains for things my father said, I remember him telling me that when he met my mother he knew her as Eileen Roberts, and when they were about to get married my mothers mother (Alma Jeane) told my father she wasnt a Roberts but Atherton !  so I cant see how her father(William)  could of been the brother of Herbert.  Rumour goes that they called her Roberts to hide her away from her father, as they said he was a rogue!!  He was looking for her apparently. Sad, sad !   
Patricia.

[carol8353]

Herbert Roberts born March 1/4 of 1892 in Toxteth park ref 8b 231.

It doesnt show another Roberts baby on the same page so I think the idea that he was twin can be ruled out.

Carol

[carol8353]

There is a family in Toxteth park in 1901 with an 9 year old Herbert Roberts.
All born Liverpool.

Thomas Roberts 65 head ship wright
Catherine Roberts 24 wife 
William Roberts 44 son widower ships steward
Phoebe Roberts 15 g/dau
William Roberts 13 g/son
Ellen Roberts 11 g/dau
Herbert Roberts 9 g/son

RG13/3434 Folio 165 Page 18

Do they sound possible?

Carol
 
 
 

[t mo]

hello patricia

whats it like having the same name as my sister   , so is it fair to say we don,t have to look for robertson - atherton then just atherton ? and if the name was roberts where does robertson come in were they just trying to be posh , this gets more confusing for an old man by the post i may need to go and lie down in a darkened room soon   , as to rogues in families i bet nearly every bodies got one of some sort or other or a neer do well .
 now promise me you won,t come up with any more revelations to throw me or if there are lets have them now before i go off me trolley
very best wishes with a smile on me face  
trevor

[Patandjohnuk]

Hi all,  firstly Carol, that looks like Herberts family, I see a William there as well !!

Trevor,  dont have anymore to tell you except that I remember my father visiting an Aunt Nel in Liverpool to find out about my mothers father.  He didnt tell us anything afterwards.   Dont know where the double barrel names came from, got them from the marriage and divorce records!  My mothers birth record gives her only Atherton as surname, but her father was listed as Robertson Atherton! strange hey.   Please dont have a nervous breakdown, you will make me feel really bad, hehe!! Promise I dont know anything else now.
thanks for what you all have discovered.
Patricia.

[Patandjohnuk]

There is a family in Toxteth park in 1901 with an 9 year old Herbert Roberts.
All born Liverpool.

Thomas Roberts 65 head ship wright
Catherine Roberts 24 wife 
William Roberts 44 son widower ships steward
Phoebe Roberts 15 g/dau
William Roberts 13 g/son
Ellen Roberts 11 g/dau
Herbert Roberts 9 g/son

RG13/3434 Folio 165 Page 18

Do they sound possible?

Carol
 
 thanks Carol, thats him, well it must be the age fits in with the date. Where do i look for the reference you mention. Herbert became a Master Mariner. I have the letter from sent to his daughter Joan from the Department of Trade, General Register and Record Office of Shipping and Seamen Cardiff, stating his qualifications as 2nd mate, 1st mate, and Master. he was listed as living at 6 Kenyon Road, Wavetree Liverpool, and Mrs Miller was name of person with whom he was residing. wonder if this was Aunt Nel?? some of the ships he worked on were, Valeria, Andania, Carpathia, Pannonii, Saxonia, Pathon. think they were all square rigged !? Interesting. wonder if there any of his family descendants still around. hmm more to find out!
Patricia.